Roberto Germán [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Our Classroom. In this space, we talk about education, which is inclusive of, but not limited to, what happens in schools. Education is taking place whenever and wherever we are willing to learn. I am your host, Roberto Germán, and Our Classroom is official. Stenhouse Publishers amplifies educators' voices through professional books written by teachers for teachers like teaching for racial equity. Becoming interrupters this award winning book on systemic inequity in schools presents clear and accessible research, allowing educators to move from reflection to interruption. Authors Tanya B. Perry, Stephen Zemelman, and Katie Smith share strategies for examining internal biases and facilitating transformative conversations.
Roberto Germán [00:01:05]:
Use code STEN24 for 20% off the Routledge website through April 26. Peeps don't sleep we got author illustrator Robert Liu-Trujillo. Hey, if you don't know, you got to check this book, Fresh Juice. We're going to be talking about this today. But he's collaborated and written and illustrated for numerous books, including Furqan's First Flat Top and Alejandria Fights Back. And when he was a kid, he and his dad made some fresh wheatgrass juice. So this inspired along with his stepdad juice, fruits and vegetables and this inspired this book. And we're going to get into it momentarily.
Roberto Germán [00:02:02]:
Robert is from Oakland, California. Shout out to the west coast. He has a wife and two kids and you can check his work out at work.robdonstop.com listen folks, Lorena and I have been following his work for some time and he's one of a small group of illustrators that the work resonates with us. We love the illustrations. We love the diversity. We love the depictions. We feel seen, we feel valued. Love sitting down with our kids and going through some of your work.
Roberto Germán [00:02:43]:
So thank you for being here today, bro.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:02:46]:
Thank you for having me. I'm so honored to be here. A part of what y'all doing. Y'all doing some incredible work that's so needed. Not just in Florida, where y'all at, but like worldwide, people need that.
Roberto Germán [00:02:56]:
So I appreciate, nah, we, we appreciate it also. And it's no exaggeration when I say we definitely been following the work that you've been doing. And I have mentioned in earlier communication that you're on our short list of illustrators if you happen to be available whenever we're ready to make our children's book. You were on the short list of illustrators, so respect to you. I know you may or may not be available, but I'm putting it out there.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:03:25]:
I appreciate it. I'm going to have that in the back of my pocket. I'm going to be like, yes. They said that it was wanted to do one right on word.
Roberto Germán [00:03:33]:
Well, I mentioned a little bit of what this book has to do with, but I want to know your why behind the book and who it was written for.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:03:46]:
So, for me, when I started getting into kids books, there were not that many children's books that showcased fathers, like Black fathers, men of color with their kids. So when I did for Khan's first flat top, and when I did, I actually wrote this one before for cons flat top. When I did both of those stories, it was like an effort to showcase them in just regular, everyday life. Like, not something that had to do with pain or history, but just them just being fathers or just being families. And so that was one of the main reasons why. And then when it comes to the juice, I just thought it would be. I mean, it was something that me and my son actually did in real life. We would actually make the juice like that.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:04:27]:
And so it was important to just show something that this is what everyday folks are doing. So that is the main impetus behind it.
Roberto Germán [00:04:36]:
Yeah, I appreciate that, because I have a son. I have three kids. I have one son. My son is five years old. And so as I was reading the book, I really connected with it. In that sense, fatherhood has just made me see life very differently. And my father passed away recently. So that's been present, grieving, but grateful, but nonetheless, this is some of the stuff that I've been on lately, too, as I've been thinking about what are some of the publications that I want to put out moving forward.
Roberto Germán [00:05:13]:
I really want to drive that narrative in terms of our presence in the household, our presence in the community, the fact that, no, we as fathers, we're here, we're doing the work. We're loving our children. We're willing to make ourselves vulnerable. We're communicating with the kids. We're connecting with them. We're doing activities like we're really here and doing this. We're present. We're not like father by title now.
Roberto Germán [00:05:43]:
We're living it out. And so that came across in your book, and I really loved it because it made me not just feel affirmative as Black father, but it also made me feel like, yo, there's other people thinking like me. There's other people driving that narrative that we know is true.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:06:06]:
I think another element, too, is when I did for conspetch flat top, I did it in English and Spanish, because I know, like yourself, like Afro Latino fathers as well, exist. And the cross communication or the cross cultural conversation between Latinos who might not know there's Black folks who are latino and Black folks who might not know something about latino culture. And so to not only learn the language and how to communicate, but also to just kind of see each other in that space, I wanted to do that with fresh juice as well, but that's not how Leon Lowell publishes. So there's an english one and there's a spanish one.
Roberto Germán [00:06:43]:
Now that's dope. We have to continue broadening our reach. And when my book Blue Ink Tears with my poetry book, I took that approach of going spanglish for the exact same reason that you said. And for me, it's also a way to model for my kids. Like, yo, let's utilize it all. English, Spanish, banglish. It's all love, it's all beautiful. And we communicate in all these different ways.
Roberto Germán [00:07:08]:
And so let's be proud of that. It's an asset. Let's leverage that.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:07:15]:
Yeah, definitely.
Roberto Germán [00:07:17]:
As an author and illustrator, I'm curious to learn about your process for developing books. Like, do you write first? Do you draw first? I wish I had the illustration skills, but I don't. But I see my daughter has a lot of potential. She might be my future illustrator. But what are some of the things that you have in mind when you're creating your illustrations and you're putting your stories together?
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:07:42]:
So for me right now, I keep a running document or notes on my phone where I kind of jot down ideas, like, I'll see something or I'll experience something or I'll have a dream, and that'll make me think of an idea. And sometimes it's for a younger audience, like a picture book. And sometimes I'm thinking for older children, like maybe kids who are in the older grades of elementary or in middle school. But right now, I usually will look at that document, go over something that I've already written and kind of wanted to leave alone and then come back to it and with fresh eyes and see, is this still a good idea? When I was first starting out, when I first started working on books, I basically would take an idea and I would write a sentence or a paragraph based on that idea, and I would do one image to go with it. And it was a way to work on the drawing skills and the writing skills. I started as an illustrator first, so just the visuals. But I quickly learned that in order to have power in this game, like in the publishing world, you needed to learn how to write and to be an author as well, and also learned that in order for me to have, I guess, more agency in the storytelling process, I needed to write as well as illustrate. So back in the day, it was like, a lot of little short stories, and now it's basically like keeping a running document of ideas that I have and letting them breathe and then coming back to them.
Roberto Germán [00:09:05]:
That's great. And I always tell students, when I'm working with them, when I'm doing writing workshops, I let them know writing is a work in progress. Sometimes as writers, you might feel, like, that pressure. I got to have that finished work, and I'm like, hey, it's okay. You could come back to this. You could revisit this. Maybe tomorrow, maybe in a week, maybe in a month. But it's a work in progress.
Roberto Germán [00:09:28]:
Yeah.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:09:28]:
And it's rewriting, too. I think that's one of the hardest parts. I think when I first started of not wanting to redo it, I'm like, it's dope already. Just put it out. And the more I read, the more I do it. I'm like, okay, this needs to go through some levels, basically, to level up and be something that you want to make, something that's classic that people can read more than.
Roberto Germán [00:09:54]:
And I, my editor, Tanya Manning yard, we went back and forth a lot when I was writing my book. She was driving me crazy. But then I feel convicted because I'm like, oh, man, she's right. When I read the feedback, I'm like, she's right. We got to get this tighter.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:10:14]:
Yeah. It's important. The other day, I was listening to an interview with Black thought, and he was talking about how their first manager would grill him on his bars and be like, that ain't it, son. Redo it. And I was like, what? You say that to Black thought? And he was like, it made me better. Even though I didn't want to do it, I went back and kept punching it up and making it better and better, and I'm like, wow, that's humbling.
Roberto Germán [00:10:38]:
Yeah. And look at him now. Like, still going at it. Still at the top of his game out there for bar with any of the rappers.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:10:46]:
Yes, any of them.
Roberto Germán [00:10:48]:
So there's a lesson in that, right? There's a lesson in terms of embracing the editing process. So, is there a particular reason that you centered the farmers market and co op as places where art and his father shop for juice ingredients?
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:11:06]:
For sure, yeah. I think part of the underlying current of the book is to talk about how what they would say during the pandemic, which is like mutual aid, like helping each other out. Like, you got this, I got that. Let's break bread. Like, I'll share with mine, you share with some of yours. Although they are exchanging money for fruits and vegetables, it's the idea of having these places in the community where you can go to. To get resources or so, like, I used to live in Brooklyn, and when I was there, the place that's a co op in the book is actually modeled on this one called the Park Slope co op in Brooklyn. And it's one of the places where they have really great food, and you can work as part of being a cooperative member that makes it more affordable and more attainable for just everyday people.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:11:53]:
Like, sometimes you go to whole paycheck or whole foods, and you've got to drop a major amount of money to get that good food done.
Roberto Germán [00:12:00]:
I tell my kids, that's a field trip.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:12:02]:
Yeah, exactly.
Roberto Germán [00:12:06]:
Whole Foods is a field trip.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:12:08]:
It is. It's expensive. And then that goes hand in hand with the farmers market. The farmers market is a more affordable way for one to get fruits and vegetables, but it's also a way of supporting your fellow farmer, your fellow worker. Because if they are, let's say, for example, there's Black farmers in your state, you're helping them to maintain, to keep growing food by buying it directly from them, instead of them having to go through a middleman, like a store, where the store may take like 30, 40% of what their earnings would be. So it's kind of like, I think a lot of people who are in big cities are already familiar with these, but people in other areas, maybe they don't know about these or maybe they don't necessarily make use of them. So it's just a way to kind of highlight them and say, these are places in your community where you can get that good know.
Roberto Germán [00:12:57]:
Yeah, that's good, man. I think it's important for us to continue to highlight them. No, here in Tampa, there's a few farmers markets, and I don't know about co ops. Maybe there is, and I'm just not familiar because I haven't been here too long. But when I lived in Texas, in Austin, there's at least one co op that I could think of, and there were a few farmer markets, and we definitely used to utilize that. But fully agree with you in terms of the importance of knowing these places in the community and really giving back, in this case, to the farmers for their hard work and supporting the work that they're doing because it's tough. It's tough for them to compete with the big dogs with these chains, you know what I'm saying? We're not even scratching the surface of all the stuff that happens behind the scenes with corporate moves to try to take them out.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:13:55]:
Yeah, no, definitely.
Roberto Germán [00:13:58]:
So what are three ways that a teacher can implement your book? Because this is something I'm always trying to explore in terms of, like, we got educators listening to the podcast. When I have these authors on, I want them to get a sense of what can I take from, in this case, fresh juice that I could implement on Monday morning for sure.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:14:21]:
I think what I try to do, or what I'm learning to do, I should say, is to show, not tell when it comes to the writing and the illustrating. And so sometimes what the illustration shows might be completely different than what the words are. Actually, in this case, in the book I mentioned, the main character, art is his stepfather, Dylan. And I only mention him in name towards the later part of the book. But I also show that he has like a sibling with his mom and his stepfather have another child. And so I come from a family where my parents divorced when they were really young. I have two kids. One of them is with a mom that I haven't been with for a long time, but we co parented for a long time.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:15:09]:
And I think this idea of blended families is much more common than most kids books would talk about. And so there's lots of books about divorce. There's lots of books about maybe the kid has two dads or the kid has two moms, but not that many about stepparents. So I just wanted to throw that in there. And I think that if you're talking to a classroom, you're going to have a certain percentage of them, that they have a co parenting thing happening in their family, their home life, or maybe even they live with the grandparents. It's basically a way to talk about different types of families, and it's good to have the mother and the father and the nuclear family or whatever. But there are also. Maybe you live part time with your dad, maybe you live part time with your mom.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:15:54]:
That's one way, I think, to talk about it, by talking about family. The other one is talking about vitamins and minerals, like the things that we need to nourish our body. So some of the places, like when they go to the West African market, he tells them, this fruit has this vitamin in it, and it's good for you. He doesn't go into the reasons why, but I think that's a jumping off point to talk to kids about vitamins and minerals and what are the things that our body needs? What are the things that we don't need? What are people consuming too much of? Or what are we not getting enough of? I think that also the idea of making, like, the makers community, where people will, whether it be with electronics or 3d printing, people will build stuff or they will make things, or there's a big culture of community where people repair, and instead of buying the new shiny joint, they'll get something that's older and repair it and make it new again. And so in the book, there's a part where the stepdad has, like, a generator that's using electricity to make the juicer go. And I've experienced this in person here in oakland. There have been a couple of festivals that I've been to where they'll have these bikes pull up, and they'll have, like, a smoothie blender connected to it. So you could literally ride that bike and make your blender just by your own power.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:17:14]:
So I would love for them to maybe have a conversation about the maker community, like, what people make. Those are, like, the lower on the low things. That's not, like, the main thing. When you see the book. In general, for Black teachers especially, it'd be great to talk about just the beauty of Black fatherhood and taking care of our kids and having models to look at or to point to. Yeah, those are some of the ones I can think of, actually. If you look on Lee and Lowe's website, and if you look on mine, there's an actual teacher's guide. So any educators that want to make use of it in classroom, whether that be with younger students or older ones, you can look at that guide and get some ideas.
Roberto Germán [00:17:59]:
There you go. Hey, folks, don't sleep. We're giving out free guides, free game. Go get.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:18:05]:
Yep.
Roberto Germán [00:18:06]:
So in the dedication, you mentioned your dad and Gary. Tell me a little bit about them.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:18:13]:
Yeah, so when I was a kid, my dad, he worked at a health food store in the Bay area, and I think it was El Cerrito, actually, which is like north of Oakland. And he was just on it. He was really into it, and he would come home with all these different type of things. He actually started growing wheatgrass in our house, and then he had, like, a little metal machine that he would wind it up and then put it in there and make it. And so it's very nutrient rich and antioxidants and vitamins. When I was a kid. However, I was not feeling it. And whenever I drink it, I was just like, please, this is not the thing I want to drink.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:18:54]:
But as I began to become a father myself and to mature as a young man, I began to see the value of what he was teaching in a way of, like, these are ways that you can interject some nutrients, like high nutrients, into your diet or your regular routine. And then Gary is my stepfather. When I was living with them, he would often take fruits and vegetables and make juice with them as, like, a regular practice. And so when I started living on my own and making food for my son, I naturally wanted to do that same thing with him. Not the wheatgrass juice, but take him to the store, get the ingredients, and make the juice with him. So I have pictures of him where he's, like, peeling the fruits and helping me actually make it. And I wouldn't put a ton of ginger and cayenne in it, but just a little bit. And he would drink it and he'd be like, this is good.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:19:49]:
And so to the point where if his homies came over, they'd be like, I don't know about that. He'd be like, no, it's good, it's good. Try it out. But, yeah, that's why I dedicated it to them.
Roberto Germán [00:19:59]:
Yeah, I was wondering about the cayenne. I'm like, I'm going to try it one of these days. I'm going to go through just a little bit. I'm like, I don't know. Your cayenne really? In the juice?
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:20:09]:
Yeah. There's been a couple of schools, I've read it many times, and some of the schools that I visit, there are kids who are like, yes, I like this. The spiciness doesn't bother them. And other kids that are just. Their whole face melts and they're like, no. So I think I really should depend on the kids you give it to.
Roberto Germán [00:20:25]:
Sure. But I think one of the important things, not just for kids, for all of us, is the willingness to try on new experiences.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:20:33]:
Yeah, no, definitely, right, sure.
Roberto Germán [00:20:35]:
Might try your juice, and I might not like it, but at least I tried it.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:20:39]:
Exactly. At least you tried it. Well, and there's a recipe in the back.
Roberto Germán [00:20:45]:
Oh, no. That's why I said, I'm going to do it with my kids, because I saw the recipe right on. And I saw the cayenne's right in there. If I don't like with the cayenne, I'm going to do everything else and leave the cayenne out yeah.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:21:00]:
I mean, I tell people, do all the other stuff, try it just like that, and then slowly introduce the other part.
Roberto Germán [00:21:06]:
Okay. Work yourself there. So fresh juice ends in the following manner. A little support from the community really made the difference. If we keep helping each other out, we might not ever get sick. Can you build on this notion?
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:21:25]:
Yeah, I mean, it goes back to that whole idea of mutual aid. If, let's say, for example, during the pandemic, there was very little support for people who historically been affected by these things. But if we had to theoretically just handle it on our own, if there's one house on the block that grows greens and there's one that keeps chickens and there's one that has lemons, we all get together and start sharing and talking to each other. It's a way moving forward to basically help each other thrive and to live and to grow and to be healthy. And so I think it's just like a not so subtle nod to helping each other out as community members and really learning to work together so that way we can be healthy.
Roberto Germán [00:22:15]:
Yeah. And you did a great job of capturing community.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:22:19]:
Thank you.
Roberto Germán [00:22:20]:
This book by highlighting the different spots, the farmers market, the west african market, the co op, and the different individuals that were owners of those spaces. Right. Like, I could tell the different backgrounds, maybe not super acutely, but I could tell there was enough detail there that let me know, like, oh, all these people, they have similarities, but they're different from one another. Might have a different accent. There might be different words that they say, or they might be particular crops that are associated with that people group.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:23:04]:
Exactly. I mean, I think that's another lesson as well, which is, like, when I think of trying to give kids lessons, I'm not trying to hit them over the head with it. I'm trying to give them a good story and then make it subtle if possible. And so having the different people is another subtle lesson to be like, hey, we're stronger when we got a bunch of different ideas and different folks together, rather than just one crop. Like, if we only got carrots, you're getting one vitamin, but you're not getting the other ones.
Roberto Germán [00:23:33]:
That's great. So, shifting gears a little bit, if you had the opportunity to have lunch with anybody, dead or alive, who would it be and why?
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:23:45]:
Most definitely, I would be with my grandmother, my mom's mom, because in many ways, she inspired all of us in terms of our willingness to try new things, our critical thinking in terms of activism or world events. What's the word? Very open minded. In terms of going to different places, listening to different music, and trying different foods. Yeah, she passed a long time ago, but I would love to sit down with her and just show her all the things that I've been able to do since then and some of the stuff that her family is doing as well. I think she would be really proud of everybody. And then if it was somebody alive, I think I would probably talk to Mc light. I always really loved Mc light. She was ill with the bars, and I just think she's like a really nice person.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:24:41]:
So I'm a big fan of her ever since I was a kid. So I would love to talk to her.
Roberto Germán [00:24:45]:
That's what's up, man. I wasn't expecting that. Wow. I came out of left field. Mc light underappreciated as an mc, but definitely a trailblazer. Light is a rock. So for those that are listening, what's a message of encouragement that you want to offer them?
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:25:08]:
I would say for people who want to do something creative to get in the gym. And what I mean by that is to work out, stretch, lift the heavy weights in terms of just staying fit. Because the more you work out, the more when it comes to actually doing something big or taking an idea that you have that just comes to you and running with it, the more in shape you are. So I would say hit the gym or practice pretty much. And then I would say, as I'm getting older, to take breaks, it's important to do your thing and to show everybody and to work with folks. And it's also important to rest and to take breaks and to really take care of your mental and your physical and your family, and then come back. The work is always going to be there.
Roberto Germán [00:25:58]:
That's love. So people that are interested in knowing more about your work as an author, as an illustrator, maybe they want to cob fresh juice. Where can they follow you?
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:26:14]:
I think the easiest place is to go to robdonestop.com, the website you mentioned earlier. Because on there you can find my store and you can get the book, or you can find that teacher's guide I was talking about. And then you can find all the social media places where I'm at.
Roberto Germán [00:26:30]:
There it is, folks. Fresh Juice by Robert Liu-Trujillo. A beautiful book. A book that really captures the essence between the relationship of a father and a son. I think this is a relatable book for all people. So thank you. If you're not familiar, please go out there and support Robert and the work that he's doing. Not just with this book, but definitely fresh juice, but with all the work that he's doing.
Roberto Germán [00:27:01]:
It's great work. He has a wonderful approach. It's a welcoming book that tells a beautiful story about relationship, about community, about healthy eating, a healthy lifestyle. Don't we all need that fresh juice, people? Thank you, Robert, for being here. Great.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:27:21]:
Thank you for having me.
Roberto Germán [00:27:22]:
Look forward to continuing to dig into your work. And once I try this recipe out, we'll let you know.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:27:30]:
Yeah, let me know. Let me know.
Roberto Germán [00:27:34]:
So that's dope. I love that you put that in the back of the book. That was a nice little touch because you brought us through the story, one ingredient at the time, and then it all comes together at the end, and you offer us something practical that we could do as the reader. And in this case, I really love the idea of doing it with my kids. So thank you for bringing us through that journey with fresh juice.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:27:57]:
Most definitely. Yeah, that was, I believe that was the editor's idea. You should put the recipe in the back. And I was like, yeah, that is a good idea.
Roberto Germán [00:28:02]:
Well, who's your editor?
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:28:04]:
Her name was Cheryl Klein when we first started.
Roberto Germán [00:28:07]:
Shout out to Cheryl.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:28:09]:
Right on.
Roberto Germán [00:28:10]:
All right. Peace.
Robert Liu-Trujillo [00:28:11]:
Peace.
Roberto Germán [00:28:15]:
As always, your engagement in Our Classroom is greatly appreciated. Be sure to subscribe, rate the show, and write a review. Finally, for resources to help you understand the intersection of race bias, education, and society, go to multiculturalclassroom.com. Peace and love from your host, Roberto Germán.
