Roberto Germán [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Our Classroom. In this space, we talk about education, which is inclusive of, but not limited to what happens in schools. Education is taking place whenever and wherever we are willing to learn. I am your host, Robelto Germán. And Our Classroom is officially in session. Welcome back to Our Classroom, folks. Joining me today, I have author Ismée Williams. And I have illustrator Tatiana Gardel.
Roberto Germán [00:00:41]:
What a pleasure to have you. Ismée Williams is an award winning author of the young adult novels Water in May, and This Train is Being Held. But that's not what we're talking about today, folks. Today we're talking about Abuelo, The Sea, and Me, written by Ismée and illustrated by Tatiana Gardel. Tatiana is a Brazilian born illustrator whose work has been recognized by the Society of Illustrators in New York and by American Illustration. So it's a pleasure for me to have both of you with me here today. Thank you for being here in Our Classroom.
Ismée Williams [00:01:18]:
Thank you so much for having us.
Tatiana Gardel [00:01:20]:
Yes.
Roberto Germán [00:01:22]:
Well, your book, I love it. I love it. I love it. Thank you for writing this, for writing a book that touches upon numerous themes that I could definitely relate to. My parents are Dominican immigrants. I grew up in the United States. I think about what they left behind and struggles that they experienced here so me and my siblings could have a better life. I think about how hard it would be for me to leave this country that I was born and raised in it and go and do something new and start something new and sacrifice myself.
Roberto Germán [00:01:58]:
And then I consider the context of what you wrote this in, how hard it must be for many people that have to leave their native country essentially forced out because of a host of different things, including political pressures. And so thank you for the courage to write this book and for the inspiration. And the first question that comes to mind for me, Ismée, when it comes to the immigrant experience here in the United States. Right. I can relate to, and I think many people can relate to it, but others might not have a clue. So why was it important for you to tell this particular story that touches upon immigration and other themes?
Ismée Williams [00:02:48]:
Yeah. So, again, thank you. First of all, thank you so much for having us. I'm so thrilled to have this opportunity to talk about this wonderful book, my first picture book with you. So. And that's an excellent question. So why. Why this story? I mean, as a writer, my goal has always been to sort of bring the emotion, like make the reader feel emotion.
Ismée Williams [00:03:10]:
And so I knew I wanted to do a picture book sort of honoring, commemorating my grandfather, my abuelito. And, you know, it's funny cause it's not as if I was like, I'm gonna write a book that's about an immigration story, right? It's like I was searching through those memories that I had with him. And, you know, a lot of it is based on my memories, my experience with him. And he was a physician in Cuba. He had to leave in the middle of the night with the clothes on their back and take his wife and his child. My mom was a young child at the time, and they had to flee because they were told they were going to be. He was going to be assassinated because he was, like, writing political narrative and publishing it in newspapers against the then dictator. And so they left.
Ismée Williams [00:04:01]:
And it was. I think it was really hard for them growing up. My abuelitos lived with us because both of my parents worked, but they didn't talk about Cuba at all like they would. And they didn't even speak Spanish to me or my brother. They spoke Spanish to each other. And I would hear them. I would hear my abuelita, my grandmother, talking on the phone to her friends. But my grandfather wanted to just try and speak English and pretend none of it had happened.
Ismée Williams [00:04:29]:
But every time we went to the ocean. So they had a small condo near the. Near the ocean that they would go back to on the weekends. And oftentimes, they would take my brother and me with them so my parents could have the weekend free as a bird. And then those were vacations when my abuelo would sort of, I don't know, soften or it would bring his memories to the surface. And that's when I would get, like, these little bits of these little tidbits of stories about Cuba. And I think at the time, being a child, I wasn't really. I don't think I was super aware, but as an adult, looking back, you know, I recognize that it was really difficult for him to talk about those.
Ismée Williams [00:05:18]:
Those memories, and that it was really only when in this sort of, that made him remember Cuba and that where maybe he felt safe, that he could open up a little bit. And so, yeah, I mean, that was the story I wanted to bring to the surface for all. For all of the readers. And, you know, thank you.
Roberto Germán [00:05:40]:
You know, it's fascinating to consider the stories that we hold within. Right. And how being in different settings could pull them out. Right. Being by the ocean. Pulled out those stories from your grandfather. You know, Tatiana, I like to consider the things that draw people, groups closer. Is there anything that you learned about the Cuban experience that Ismée wrote about that connects to the Brazilian experience? I've never been to Brazil.
Roberto Germán [00:06:14]:
I know a little bit about both countries, but, you know, I need to lean into this with some curiosity.
Tatiana Gardel [00:06:21]:
Yes. Thank you for having us today, Roberto. So, yes, definitely. So for the illustration, for the illustrator, the process is very different, right. Because we received the text with no idea of what we're going to be doing until we read the text. And I immediately connected to Isméei words. I connected with this manuscript with, like, two in two separate situations. One was through my grandfather, who had recently passed away when I received the manuscript.
Tatiana Gardel [00:06:57]:
So I was really inspired by it and to portray him or like, parts of him, like, visually with the story. And the other part that I connected with was with the character of Abuelu himself, because he had this connection with the ocean. And I was raised, born and raised in Brazil. I grew up by the coast. Like, going to the beach was part of my daily routine. So when I moved to the US, I felt that difference because I moved to New York. It's not like the weather is very different. The culture, how people relate to each other is very different.
Tatiana Gardel [00:07:39]:
So that was a little shocking. And going to the beach here in the summer became my way of connecting to Brazil. So I, although I didn't fly from Brazil, right, like Abuelo in the story, but, like, there's this tiny bits of the story that really speaks personally to me. And also Abuela's favorite fruits. Like I always say, guayaba. Guava, my favorite fruit, too. So I found those connections with what is may wrote. And to me, like, Brazil is a huge country, right.
Tatiana Gardel [00:08:20]:
And my experience will be different from another Brazilian experience. But in my experience, I really connected to Abuelo's character.
Roberto Germán [00:08:32]:
Yeah, it's interesting for me to even, as you mentioned, connecting with, in this case, a food item, right. Guayaba. Because even though I was born and raised here in the United States, I spent time in Dominican Republic. And so there'd be certain things that come to mind for me that I'm like, yeah, when I'm eating this, when I'm eating a mango, right? When I'm eating a mango, I feel like I'm in Republic of Dominicano. When I'm drinking cocoa frill, I feel like I'm in Canada. And so I appreciate how y'all brought the food aspect into this. I'm like, yeah, I drink hot chocolate. I like it.
Roberto Germán [00:09:24]:
But that was, you know, that part in the story. I'm like, ah, hot chocolate. Okay. You know, I guess I got settled. We got to settle for hot chocolate. And I felt abuelo had to do a lot of settling, right. As the story was progressing, I'm like, oh, man. Like, I could just.
Roberto Germán [00:09:43]:
Right. You talked about bringing up about the emotions, and I could feel like I got a suck settle for this thing. And yet at the same time, I felt there was a peace in the settling, right? There was a peace in being able to, like, I, you know, but this is actually worth settling for, because at least here I'm free. I don't know if this wasn't in my notes, but if either you want to build on that, I welcome a welcome elaboration.
Ismée Williams [00:10:20]:
No, I think that's. That's exactly. That's exactly it. I mean, everything has a cost, right? There's a price for everything. Of value has a cost, right? And so they wanted. They had. They had to leave. They had no choice, you know, and they gave up a lot.
Ismée Williams [00:10:38]:
They gave up family. They gave up speaking Spanish, you know? And I should say they moved to, like, Hackensack, New Jersey. They didn't move to Miami because he had family in New York City, but they couldn't afford New York City, so they were in Hackensack, New Jersey. Right. And then I grew up sort of in Connecticut, where nobody spoke Spanish, like, and nobody could even understand my poor grandmother, who didn't speak English at all until she came to this country and learned by watching soap operas. And so she had a very, very thick accent. But, yeah, they, I mean, they were free. They could say what they wanted, do what they wanted, and they, they weren't being.
Ismée Williams [00:11:22]:
They weren't afraid for their lives or, you know, so. But, yeah, like, and in terms of fruit, I remember, I have a distinct memory asking my grandmother, what were the fruits that, like, what were your favorite fruits? And her answer was basically, like, you wouldn't know it. Like, they don't have that fruit here. I don't even know what they call it in English. It's just, she said we had so many fruit. I don't. Here I only see, like, the mango and the pina and the, and the guayaba. But she's like, so many fruits, and I don't even know what they're called.
Roberto Germán [00:11:54]:
Well, allow me to read an excerpt from the book. I won medals. Sabis. Can I see them? I ask. Abuelo stares into the horizon. I left them behind. I do not even have pictures. Let's take a moment to unpack that.
Roberto Germán [00:12:15]:
What emotions surface for you, and how does this inspire and challenge you?
Ismée Williams [00:12:24]:
Yeah, you know, that's. Because that, that did that. That's kind of true. That is, that is what I was told, that he was like, a really, like, champion swimmer and that he had won all these things and, you know, he had to leave it behind. And he has no, the only thing he has left are his memories. He has nothing tangible other than what he brought in here. You know, I think part of that explains why he, it was a little painful to, you know, to bring them out and let them see the light of day. But, you know, I grew up with the story that, you know, I mentioned.
Ismée Williams [00:12:59]:
My grandfather was a doctor, and he came to this country. He couldn't be a doctor right away because, you know, you can't. That's, that's very typical. If you're trained in another country, you still have to go through training in the country that you're moving to to get certified. And so he, he, when he, because he came to this country, he was, like, in his late fifties, and he went back to residency in his sixties because initially, he couldn't even go to residency straight away because he had to make money for his family. So he worked for a drug company. Like, he worked in a lab. Like, he was like a lab technician, you know? So it was like this, this sort of family, not really a myth, but this family story of, like, you know, they had so much, they left it all behind.
Ismée Williams [00:13:47]:
They started over, but they didn't stop fighting. Right. He kept trying. He kept trying to reach, to reclaim, you know, to get back to where he was, and he did. And, you know, he became an obstetrician again. And I think he practiced for, like, three or four years because then it was time to retire. So it was like, you know, when I was a kid, I was like, that's okay. But as an adult, to think of that, I'm like, how could he even, that took so much strength.
Ismée Williams [00:14:12]:
And I appreciate it more as an adult, looking back, but I think especially for children, you know, the idea, like, you know, children love trophies. They love medals, right? They love that little piece of something that tells them that they did a good job and that they're special. You know, everybody likes to be told that. And then to think about having to leave that behind, you know, and having to almost reinvent yourself and start all over again, it's. It's a lot.
Roberto Germán [00:14:42]:
Yeah. Can't imagine. Can't imagine. Although obviously, plenty of people go through it. But, you know, for such reason, we need to continue to advocate and continue to amplify these stories. And talking about amplifying Tatiana, can you explain the decision making process when it comes to amplifying images on some pages versus the smaller illustrations on others. So I just noticed that, you know, in some of the pages, the images really stand out. The characters are bigger, and then other pages, it shrinks.
Roberto Germán [00:15:16]:
And it made me wonder, made me curious. So I love to hear your perspective as illustrator on that.
Ismée Williams [00:15:24]:
I'm curious about this answer, too.
Tatiana Gardel [00:15:27]:
That's interesting, because I decided to become an illustrator. I have a background in art, but I decided to become an illustrator after I moved here. And when I was studying, like, checking picture books, I had the same questions. I'm like, how do you make those choices? So the way I understand them now is that creating those differences helps the reader to create a visual rhythm, a pacing. So a full image has a lot of information, whereas when you have the white space behind your eyes kind of rest a little bit. So the way I make my decisions, this is not something I think about right away. So I read the manuscript and I let the images come to my head first. So usually the images that come to my head are the full spreads or the big ones.
Tatiana Gardel [00:16:29]:
So in this case, I had. So the ones that came to my head, like this one, I knew I wanted it to be big, right? And there are the ones that show each season. And from there, I go back and start to put the text into the number of pages that we have. Right. So in this case, in this first case, here, like, to me, it helps to create tension for the next page. So, like, here we know he's already in the beach. Like, here we have this nice introduction. We see the characters very big, and then we know they are on the beach.
Tatiana Gardel [00:17:15]:
And now, like, this is, like, descriptions of actions. It's not like something that deserves that much of a wow moment, but then before it. So then you see those actions and then comes, like, a wow moment. So these are some of the process of thinking about this. It can be also, like, a strategy to tell more of the story because the number of pages are very limited for a picture book. So sometimes if you break it down, you can show more visually. Did I explain your question?
Roberto Germán [00:17:54]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. No. I'm a nerd about this stuff. I love this because this, for me, is a cheat code. You know, I get to interview a lot of authors and illustrators, and I'm working on my own picture book. And so, like, listening to different illustrators, different authors go through their process, and I'm like, oh, wow, you know, like, I I never considered it that way or, oh, wow, you know, there's some parallels here. It's just so helpful.
Roberto Germán [00:18:19]:
And I'm not, by any means an illustrator. My drawings are not that good. However, my daughter, my nine year old daughter, Annalise, I think she has a lot of talent and a lot of potential to do that if she wants to continue to pursue it. But I see all the drawings that she does, and I'm just like, wow, you know, like, how does she even come up with that? And, you know, and then it just makes me wonder about folks like you who, you know, do create such amazing work. Right? Like, looking at these. This page here, where the hands are connected, right? One hand in the other. There are gloves on. I'm from the north, so, you know, I understand this.
Roberto Germán [00:19:05]:
I understand. And you all live in New York, so you know what time it is. When it gets cold, you got to put them gloves on. And so, like, I. As the reader, I can really connect with these illustrations, and that's what you want. You know, you want the illustration to amplify the story, to amplify the words, to bring the text to life. And so this is not necessarily something I have thought I had considered before in terms of the process for the illustrator. And I look a lot, a lot of picture books.
Roberto Germán [00:19:41]:
For some reason, when I read this book, it really struck me, the contrast between the bigger illustrations and then the smaller illustrations. So thank you for that explanation. Very, very helpful.
Tatiana Gardel [00:19:57]:
Absolutely.
Roberto Germán [00:20:00]:
So, I had mentioned, Ismée, the term advocacy. In what ways can your book be utilized to advocate for issues that are still impacting the Cuban community to this day?
Ismée Williams [00:20:17]:
So, thank you for this question. So I will quickly say, in terms of the Cuban community, you know, they're still living in a communist state. Things are a little bit worse because there had been. Well, from my perspective as a us citizen, it's much harder for Cubans to actually even come into this country. It used to be that once, if they got here, that they would have amnesty and they'd be welcomed, and they had that status for a very long time, and that's no longer the case. I even met. I went to Mexico on a medical mission because my day job as a pediatric cardiologist.
Roberto Germán [00:20:55]:
Right. I've read that. How does she do all these things?
Ismée Williams [00:20:59]:
The answer is not all at once. So I was a pediatric cardiologist first, and then I was on bed rest with my children, all three of them. So I was like. And that's when I started writing. I was like, oh, what am I? What can I do? Let's start writing. I love books, but so I met a Cuban. He was a. He's a perfusionist.
Ismée Williams [00:21:19]:
So this is somebody who runs the bypass machine, the heart lung bypass machine, during surgery. And he actually was living in Ecuador. He left Cuba to go to Ecuador. And he said that he couldn't even get into the United States to attend medical conferences because they. The us government would not give him a visa because he's a Cuban citizen, and they don't think he'll ever leave. So, like, this is a professional who couldn't even come into this country for a. And that sort of. I was like, wow.
Ismée Williams [00:21:50]:
Because that was the first time I'd heard that. But I also think that when the conversation comes up about immigrants, a lot of people don't immediately think of Cubans right now, because that's not the current wave that we're seeing in large cities like New York. We're seeing a lot of people from other parts of Latin America, specifically Venezuela right now. And these are people who are fleeing horrible situations. I mean, we talked about this a little bit at the beginning. It's really, really difficult to leave everything you've ever known and everything you've ever loved behind and start over, and their situation is so grave. It's so difficult that these people are making the choice, that this is really my only choice. I have to go somewhere else.
Ismée Williams [00:22:43]:
I have to find something better for my family. And I think that we have to be careful not to get too political. But we can't dehumanize these people. We have to think, like, you know, what is it? What is the story behind that? And what are they going through when they come here? And what are the emotions? And so with that perspective, I'm hopeful that this book can be used even more broadly to remind everyone that it's a struggle. It's a struggle to leave and to come and to start over and to be sort of a fish out of water, not knowing the culture, the food, or, like, where's my fruit? That's not what we call it in my country. Or you don't even have the foods that I usually eat. Not to mention all of the other more concrete challenges like housing and job security and child care because you left the grandparents behind. It's really tough.
Ismée Williams [00:23:42]:
So I'm hopeful that the book will bring some joy, will remind people that, you know, immigrants are, you know, have the same human emotions that we all do. And, you know, they deserve to be honored and thought of, and. And those memories deserve to be treasured.
Roberto Germán [00:24:01]:
Thanks for sharing. Building upon that, Tatiana, your illustrator's note states that your abuelo was a leader engaged in social causes with a strong sense of justice. Can you provide some examples of how he did so?
Tatiana Gardel [00:24:15]:
Yes, absolutely. So he was a union leader for the metallurgical workers, which are people who work with metal in the factory. And he fought for the workers rights during the Brazilian dictatorship. He also participated in the foundation of the Workers party in Brazil. He was a leader in his neighborhood association, and he was also involved with social work through church. He had a radio weekly show in the Catedral de Brazil channel in Rio. So this is also something that I found connection with his Miss Abuelo, especially when I learned, like, why he fled, I immediately thought about my grandfather and all the things that he has done throughout his life for his community.
Ismée Williams [00:25:16]:
Well, you, Tatiana, can you read your. Because your dedication to him, you dedicated the book to him, right, to your abuelito. Can you just read it in Portuguese for us? Because it touches on that, on what you just said?
Tatiana Gardel [00:25:34]:
Oh, yeah. Okay. So.
Roberto Germán [00:25:49]:
Thank you for reading that. I was going to read that, but, you know, my portuguese is a little.
Ismée Williams [00:25:55]:
You could do the english translation.
Tatiana Gardel [00:25:56]:
Yes.
Roberto Germán [00:25:58]:
Well, so, Tatiana, you got a little bit ahead of me, because I was going to ask that in the process of creating this book, what did the two of you learn about each other, if anything? But you basically, you know, did share now what you learned about east men. You could certainly elaborate or add something else, but, Ismay, did you learn anything about Tatiana in the process of creating the book or reading the book?
Ismée Williams [00:26:29]:
Well, so recently I've learned about her, because what's so fascinating is that, you know, a lot of my friends and colleagues who don't know about book writing, they're like, oh, so did you and Tatiana sell it together? Did you find it? And that's not typically how it works, right? Usually, the publisher buys the manuscript with the words, and then the publisher looks for an illustrator that they think is compatible with this, with the vision for the story that they have. And I think in some ways, it's great that we weren't kind of collaborating because I had always hoped that the illustrator would add a whole nother layer to the story, like their own vision, and really not just make it come to life, but make it, like, blossom, like, make it even more full and, like, textured. And I think that's exactly what happened. And I'm so thrilled with, with the illustrations, Tatiana's brilliance with her art. But we met in person at an SCPWI conference in this February, and we were both in the same breakout session. And I stood up to ask a question. Question. And I was sort of in the middle of the room, like, you know, like, those hotel, like, ballrooms, like, they break up, and Tatiana was sort of in the front.
Ismée Williams [00:27:46]:
And then I see someone's waving to me, and I couldn't really, like, see? And I'm like, is she just waving at me? And then afterwards, Tatiana, man, she's like, I'm Tatiana. And so. And we didn't even know that we both lived in New York, right. Because the editor would, like, communicate with us separately a lot of the time. Like, because I think, again, there's this sort of, like, we don't want to, like, cross contaminate. We want you each to have, like, your own artistic freedom to, you know, bring your own experiences and vision to the story. But so, most recently, and we're also both part of Las Musa's collaborative, which is a collective of latina authors and illustrators for children. And it's not just Latina.
Ismée Williams [00:28:29]:
It's people who identify in the feminine spectrum.
Roberto Germán [00:28:32]:
Yeah.
Ismée Williams [00:28:32]:
And it's, like, the idea to, like, uplift and, like, share experiences and help everybody through the publishing journey. So we're both part of that group, which is fantastic. But so I've had the pleasure of getting to know Tatiana better these past months and learning about her abuelito story, whereas I think she knew about Maya Wello's story because it was in the book. So that that was. That was really lovely and very special to see how much it, you know, it mirrored and reflected her abuelo story. And it also gave me hope that, you know, that this. That this very specific story for Maya Buelo has a lot of potential to resonate with a lot of different stories.
Tatiana Gardel [00:29:10]:
Absolutely. And for me, when I received the text, obviously, I learned some of the stuff, some of the story of Abuelo. However, there were the gaps in the text that really made me very curious to know about. I had, like, feelings of what it was, especially the passage that you read, Roberto, like, the medals, like, he fled. So I asked the editor to ask Ismay, like, to give me more context of what was the story behind of it. Behind it. And she replied to him. Then he.
Tatiana Gardel [00:29:54]:
He copied and let me read the text, and that made me connect even more to the story. So before I met Ismay, I already knew a little bit more about her abuela's background. Oh. And one thing that I learned about, I think that's also. That is made just. Is just like her grandfather. Like, she's a doctor and a writer just like him. So I think that's amazing.
Tatiana Gardel [00:30:27]:
She took after him.
Ismée Williams [00:30:29]:
That's true.
Tatiana Gardel [00:30:30]:
Yeah.
Roberto Germán [00:30:30]:
Legacy. Legacy. It's great to hear how folks are able to identify the similarities because I think when we're able to do that, I find it helpful in terms of getting in proximity, at least moving in that direction. So thank you both for sharing. So as we get ready to wrap up the interview, a couple questions I have for you, and one of them is if you had the opportunity to have lunch with anybody that are alive, who would it be and why?
Ismée Williams [00:31:05]:
So that's easy for me because I would have lunch with my abuelos again because they passed. My abuelo passed when I was twelve and so I was lucky. My brother was only seven, so his memories of our grandfather much more limited because of his age. But I would love to have lunch with both of them, you know, catch them up on my life and, I don't know, just see what they think and, you know, you miss them and you wonder, you know, what are they? What would they think of your life now? Hopefully good things.
Roberto Germán [00:31:34]:
But, yeah, give them a copy of your book. Right.
Ismée Williams [00:31:38]:
Well, and also just to let them know, you know, how impactful they were and how grateful I am to have had that time with them and that they really meant a lot because obviously I'm still thinking about them. Right? Right.
Tatiana Gardel [00:31:51]:
Yeah. To me, you guys already answered my question. To me, it would be to meet with Maya Vu and show him this book, which he would be very proud of.
Roberto Germán [00:32:04]:
That's great. Well, you have done a great work. What is the message of encouragement that you want to offer our audience?
Tatiana Gardel [00:32:13]:
To me, it would be for people to just like, enjoy and cherish, cherish those moments, those special moments with a loved one and keep them close to you.
Ismée Williams [00:32:29]:
Yeah, I agree. You know, stop and smell the rose, right? The roses. Like, make sure that you don't rush through life because, you know, pretty soon that that small child is going to be grown up, that grandparent won't be with you. Take the time to really hold them close and, you know, fully experience something like be present. Be present in those moments, you know, but. But also, you know, just remember, everyone out there is a person and they are, you know, they had a grandparent or they are a grandparent or they have a small child or they were a small child. And just remember, everybody has these, everybody's a person, you know, don't forget that. Like, just try to be kind.
Roberto Germán [00:33:18]:
So where can folks follow you if they want to connect with you, if they want to learn more about your work. If they want to bribe themselves of a copy of this beautiful book, abuelo, the Sea and me. Where should folks follow you?
Ismée Williams [00:33:38]:
Well, I have a website. It's just my name, eastmewilliams.com. my website links back to the publishers page, which offers a whole assortment of buying opportunities. Basically, the book can be purchased anywhere books are sold. I will also put a plug, even if you don't have the means to buy the books because books are expensive, you can go to your local library and request it, and usually the libraries will order it for you. And that's wonderful too. That's also very helpful for authors and illustrators.
Tatiana Gardel [00:34:12]:
Yes, same as SME. You can go to my website, tatianagardell.com. i have my mail there if anybody wants to say hi. You can also follow me on Instagram or Twitter. I'm more active on Instagram. It's our delta tiana, my handle.
Roberto Germán [00:34:33]:
Hey folks, there you have it. Check their workout. Ismée, Tatiana, beautiful book here, Abuelo, the C, and me. Grab yourselves a copy, go to the library, tell them to order support good work. Support content that amplifies stories that are meaningful, impactful, not fluff, but telling. Telling the stories that we need to tell. Real stories, emotional stories that foster conversations that are relevant to what we are experiencing here in the United States and likely beyond, for that matter. So thank you very much.
Roberto Germán [00:35:18]:
Thank you for being here. Ismée, Tatiana, Acidon Placid welcome to Our Classroom, and I anticipate having you back on the platform in the future.
Ismée Williams [00:35:29]:
Thank you so much. It was so great to be here with you guys.
Tatiana Gardel [00:35:32]:
This was wonderful. I love.
Roberto Germán [00:35:36]:
As always, your engagement in Our Classroom is greatly appreciated. Be sure to subscribe, rate the show, and write a review. Finally, for resources to help you understand the intersection of race, bias, education, and society, go to multiculturalclassroom.com. peace and love from your host, Robelto Germán.
