Roberto Germán [00:00:01]:
Welcome to our classroom. In this space, we talk about education, which is inclusive of but not limited to what happens in schools. Education is taking place whenever and wherever we are willing to learn. I am your host, Roberto Germán, and our classroom is officially in session. Welcome back to our classroom. In this episode, I sit down with Penny Kittle to talk about my book, Blue Ink Tears, a poetry collection 20 Years in the making. We explore vulnerability, identity and storytelling as tools for healing and connection. From fatherhood to faith, from classroom struggles to personal triumphs, this conversation is a journey through the poems and the purpose behind them.
Roberto Germán [00:00:53]:
Tune in and be inspired to tell your own truth.
Penny Kittle [00:00:56]:
I absolutely love so many things about this book and one of them is the way it is structured. And we're gonna talk about that in a minute, but I thought if you could first just introduce yourselves. I mean, introduce yourself. The Caribbean population in my university is huge. And I am so excited that you're Dominican and that I can bring this to my students and say, here's a Dominican writer, a poet. So can you tell us a little bit about who you are?
Roberto Germán [00:01:26]:
Yes. Well, first of all, Penny, it's an honor to be here. Thank you for having me on your platform. Respect your work. Lorena and I have been following you for some time and grateful for all that you offer, all that you bring to this space and world. My name is Roberto Germán. I am a longtime educator. Started as an English teacher and then moved into school leadership.
Roberto Germán [00:01:50]:
All the while I was still teaching, teaching English, teaching Spanish, teaching strength and conditioning course, whatever said school needed me to do, I would step in, teach race and gender. I've had some interesting experiences in my educational journey and then most recently transitioned to full time educational consultant, podcaster and author. And so my focus is through my business multicultural classroom, in which Lorena Germán and I work as partners, and addressing and dismantling racism and bias, working with school leaders, working with teachers, training them, creating tools to support them. And so one of the tools that we try to utilize are books. And so through authorship, we're able to make our impact. And I've had bluing tears on my heart and mind for 20 plus years. It was always on the back burner because as school leader, everything else was the priority. Always putting out fires or always serving others.
Roberto Germán [00:02:54]:
And so once we moved from Texas to Florida, I said, it's now or never. I have to get this thing out into the world. I have to take all that I've been storing, all that I've been experiencing, all that I've been chronicling in my writing and share it with the people. And so, thankfully, with the support of Lorena and Tanya, man in Yard, my editor, Monica Cohen, my designer, Jose Gabriel, Fresh Creativo, my photographer, I had a wonderful team that helped me along the way to make this a reality.
Penny Kittle [00:03:28]:
I would suggest also the three you dedicated it to helped a little bit.
Roberto Germán [00:03:32]:
Oh, yes, yes, yes. Babies. My babies. Yes.
Penny Kittle [00:03:36]:
I know. For me, my daughter was about nine when I was writing a lot.
Roberto Germán [00:03:39]:
And.
Penny Kittle [00:03:40]:
And she would send notes under the door into this office. And sometimes one time she came in and laid down next to my office door and played her flute. It was like, mom, come out, come out. So they definitely. Your whole family has to give up to produce a piece of work.
Roberto Germán [00:03:55]:
Absolutely. And I'm glad that you mentioned that, because one of the reasons I deemed it important to publish this is because I wanted to leave my children with something that they could connect with and get to know me in a different way at a later stage in life. I have young kids, but when I get older or when I pass, I want them to be able to look back and read my words and understand me in a different way.
Penny Kittle [00:04:23]:
And this book is. It's memoir. Like, I mean, people are going to love that. There are sections in here that are not just what you'd normally find in a poetry book. It's like such a gift of your soul and your heart. And even when I opened the very first two pages and I went, you're letting us in. A little window into how you did this, which it makes it a teaching tool as well, which is cool.
Roberto Germán [00:04:53]:
Absolutely, absolutely. And that was in conjunction with my thought partners with Lorena, with Monica Cohen, and also just thinking about the work that it took to actually make this happen. I felt like I needed to give the readers a window into some of the process and the journey and the fact that this book was 20 plus years in the making. But that's because it took a long time. Just because something takes you a long time to produce doesn't mean that the process is any less valuable. Right. It doesn't mean that it won't happen because it's taking you long. It just means you got to experience and allow for all of the highs and the lows that come with that process to help you be a better writer, to help you be a better creator, and also to help you just appreciate.
Roberto Germán [00:05:57]:
I'm so deeply appreciative of the work that was produced through this book. And it's a wee thing, right? Because I know this wasn't just me. But I'm appreciative of all of the struggle that I experienced with this because I look at it and say, you know what, if I would have done this 20 years ago when I was younger and I didn't know as much and I didn't have the resources and I thought I was a better writer than I am now, it wouldn't have had the same impact. I have a much greater appreciation for the fine tuning that happened. I have a much greater appreciation for the different individuals that impacted me along the way. I have a much greater appreciation for the broad range of experiences that I was able to share.
Penny Kittle [00:06:43]:
You know, I think that touches on something that I want to ask you about that I think is important because I put my first book in the world 20 years ago, and everything I reread that I've written is painful because I could make it better. So when you think about writing, isn't there a huge moment that's just pure courage to put your work into the world?
Roberto Germán [00:07:07]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that for me, with this book, I'm exposing a lot of myself. I'm exposing a lot of my experiences, and there's stuff that I'm sharing there that people did not know about me. And so the notion of vulnerability. I talked about this not too long ago in my podcast because being black Dominican, growing up in the United States of America, I haven't felt that there's been a lot of encouragement for me as a man to make myself vulnerable. And so writing has always been the tool that's allowed me to do that. And I've had to do some of my own work in terms of dismantling that notion that I can't make myself vulnerable because society might push against that.
Roberto Germán [00:08:02]:
But doing it through writing definitely helped me to not only have that space to be vulnerable, but understand that in taking that courageous step to put myself out there and put my work out there, I'm encouraging and inspiring others to do the same, which is part of your perspective. I want people, particularly individuals that are like me, people that come from a Lawrence, Massachusetts, Dominican American growing up in the hood, to know that they can do this, that their voice matters, their stories matters, and that we can control the narrative. I wasn't waiting for anybody to validate my work. I wasn't waiting for a big time writer. I wasn't waiting for a literary agent. I wasn't waiting for a publishing company. I said, this is deeply personal to me. I believe in my work, I believe in my writing.
Roberto Germán [00:08:55]:
But more importantly, I Believe that my experience matters and that others are sharing these experiences. And if I put it out there into the world, it's gonna resonate. It's gonna resonate, it's gonna affirm, it's gonna challenge, it's gonna encourage, and it's gonna awaken some people that may not be familiar with some of the things that folks like me go through.
Penny Kittle [00:09:24]:
Oh, that is like. That is like a speech I would love to give to every single student I teach. I have many kids from Lawrence, from Lowell, from all over Boston who would never dream of going to Boston College, as you did. Right. I' in the middle of New Hampshire. And what I try to convince them of is your story matters, your individual, personal story. But every teacher who listens to this feels this as well. We hate to be vulnerable because we're supposed to be the authority.
Penny Kittle [00:09:53]:
And it can be very hard to write with kids and to share who you are. So you are absolutely going to inspire other people to put their truth on the page.
Roberto Germán [00:10:04]:
It's interesting that you say that, because when I was in my school leadership roles, I always felt I have to reserve some of myself, including my artistic self, my writer self, because I was establishing myself as school leader, and I needed them to see me as principal or assistant principal. And so it would take some time, maybe two, three years, before I'm like, all right. I feel like they understand what I'm doing. You know, I built these relationships. They're buying into my leadership. They respect me. They understand I'm invested in them. Now I can show them a part of myself that I wasn't willing to do in year one or year two?
Penny Kittle [00:10:49]:
Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. Don't you think I would have loved it if one of my leaders had stood up and said, here's a poem I'm working on. But the courage to do that is different. Right. Because when you're the one sharing the poem, you're looking out at those faces going, is anybody going to hear this? With the sensitivity I need right now? I think it's a lot. So one of the things that I loved about your bio is that you are a spoken word artist. I'm hoping you are going to read something to us.
Penny Kittle [00:11:18]:
But before we get there, this is separated and the title, Blue Ink Tears into three sections. Blue ink and tears. Can you say something about that? How did you, like, imagine this and put it together?
Roberto Germán [00:11:30]:
Yeah, absolutely. So the concept of bluing tears, it hit me when I was a sophomore in college at Merrimack College, undergrad, North Dandover, Massachusetts. I wrote a poem. It was related to love and romance, whatnot. And then me and my comrades from the Solo Caliber Movement Performance Arts Group, we took that and we turned that concept into a concert. It was one of the biggest, most successful concerts. I met college, but one of the things that it taught me was like, oh, this is more than just a poem. This is a movement.
Roberto Germán [00:12:06]:
You know, I'm leveraging this to get talented folks to share their stories and share their voice. And so what I did here was think about, like, what is it that I'm trying to communicate? Where is it coming from? And so the blue really is getting into relationships, all right? And to me, part of what blue represents is, like, I could feel blue in terms of feel, feel down and whatnot and get into, like, how different relationships might make me feel. But also, blue is my favorite color. So blue brings me a lot of joy. And my son Zion is always asking me, what. What's my favorite color? Even though I've told him a thousand times, but I tell him for a thousand, one time, it's blue. And there's just something about the color blue that, you know, it. It just.
Roberto Germán [00:12:56]:
I'm connected to it. And so there's. There's joy there, too. With ink, what I was trying to capture there is I'm very pensive, and I'm a slow processor, but I see what's going on. I observe everything, and I write it down, and then I'll come back to it. And so with inc, it's really just taken in a lot of the experiences around me. Some are my experiences, but some. Some of the experience I capture is like, this is what's happening in our society, and I gotta lean into it, even if I rather not.
Penny Kittle [00:13:36]:
Yeah.
Roberto Germán [00:13:37]:
Responsibility to lean into some of these conversations because of the way it impacts me, impacts my community, impacts us all.
Penny Kittle [00:13:46]:
It does.
Roberto Germán [00:13:47]:
And so, you know, how do I take some of what I'm observing and some what I'm living and communicate it in a way where I could draw people in even if they don't think it impacts them or if it's not their direct experience helping them understand, like, well, I got to put this out here. These are topics that we need to talk about, because even if you don't think it impacts you directly, it. It does. And so let's get there. And then with tears, it was just capturing the notion of tears can be tears of joy and tears could be tears of sadness. Right. And we have the highs and lows in life. And so I wanted to get into different emotional experiences, and I also wanted to get into kind of a.
Roberto Germán [00:14:40]:
Some tear jerkers. So what do I mean by that? I mean, some of the writing that I included. There was stuff. You know what? This is a piece I'm throwing in there because I just addressed a difficult topic or I just addressed a sad topic. I need something that's gonna jerk a tear and make me laugh. So I'm gonna include this piece here that's talking about stress and handling stress, but I'm gonna do it in a little different way. And I'm. I'm gonna include this line here about how, like, you know, stress in the stomach and, you know, it'll make you fart or whatever, because, you see, you say fart and people laugh, right?
Penny Kittle [00:15:22]:
My students sure do.
Roberto Germán [00:15:23]:
All people do. But exactly. This is when I share that poem with, like, middle schoolers or elementary schools. You already know. Everybody's just, like, laughing through the roof. And so we. We need those moments because there's enough going on in our world and probably in. In our respective personal lives, there's enough going on that'll make us sad and make a cry in that sense.
Roberto Germán [00:15:48]:
And I'm like, hey, we need some tear jerkers that are just gonna make us laugh. You know, squeeze out a bit of laughter and joy and whatnot. So I wanted to cover this broad range as it relates to that emotional spectrum.
Penny Kittle [00:16:05]:
I love that, and I love how you talk about using. Like, I can tell you're a notebook writer or a paper and pen writer at times, at least, and how you use that as a way to take in the world. That's a really great perspective, I think, of this picture, and I wonder, is this Merrimack College? Is that you?
Roberto Germán [00:16:22]:
That is. That is me. And next to me is Troy Lazzaro, one of my closest friends who. Who I met at Merrimack College. But that photo was actually taken at Phillips Academy in Andover, Massachusetts.
Penny Kittle [00:16:37]:
Yep.
Roberto Germán [00:16:38]:
Troy and I, that year, we were encouraged by Dr. Kathleen Shine Kane from Merrimack College, who was one of the few professors that we really loved and connected with. Like, I think she understood we were going through some things at Merrimack, and it was tough for us to exist in that space, but she saw a lot of potential in us, and she saw that we were really invested in our writing. And so she encouraged us to participate in the Andover bread loaf program as writing leaders.
Penny Kittle [00:17:14]:
Nice.
Roberto Germán [00:17:14]:
I was like, wait a second. They're gonna pay us to write? They're gonna pay us to encourage middle Schoolers to write sign me up. And so Troy and I did it. And that was a moment there where we were working on a writing prompt. And that was. That was 2000. That photo's from 2001.
Penny Kittle [00:17:38]:
Wow. And that is quite the place, Andover. That is a school like most kids will never see, never set foot in.
Roberto Germán [00:17:46]:
Right. And, yeah, even if you go to a beautiful university, some of them cannot match Andover.
Penny Kittle [00:17:54]:
Many of them cannot match that.
Roberto Germán [00:17:56]:
And there's a lot of things we could say about Philip, Sandra.
Penny Kittle [00:17:58]:
Yes, we could. So I have one request of a poem, but I wanted you to be able to control the readings. And so I don't know if you want my request last or somewhere in the middle.
Roberto Germán [00:18:10]:
Yes, yes, your request lasts. And let's see if the ones I selected will be one of your requests.
Penny Kittle [00:18:15]:
There we go.
Roberto Germán [00:18:17]:
Okay. So I was thinking about what I wanted to share, and I identified three very different pieces. And I'll read. I'll read one, and then I'll share why I picked that one. And. And we'll kind of keep that.
Penny Kittle [00:18:32]:
Okay.
Roberto Germán [00:18:33]:
All right. All right. The first one. Sunset Sunrise we watch the sunrise side by side we sit in awe Beauty beholds us Top of the morning Simplicity of sunup Nature takes its course Season the moment together we chase the sun as weeks change Smiles like radiant beams Hope sits on the horizon and it feels pleasant to hold hands and stroll around the reservoir again before it gets dark with so much to say the two of us converse till the day is complete Longing to stay but sundown signals the little time that we have left we watch the sunset side by side we sitting on my first date with you.
Penny Kittle [00:19:27]:
No.
Roberto Germán [00:19:29]:
So this. This piece, this. This is a relationship piece. And this is about my first date with Lorena Germán, my wife. Wonderful author herself.
Penny Kittle [00:19:40]:
Yes, indeed. We read her book last year.
Roberto Germán [00:19:43]:
I remember. I remember. We appreciate, you and I. So this is when I was finishing the book. I needed a few more pieces to include, and I had two weeks where all that would come to me were haikus. Like, I just. I couldn't snap out of it. So I'm like, all right, well, this is what's coming.
Roberto Germán [00:20:06]:
Let's go. And so with this one, I was like, all right, you know, how can I. I want to do something different. So, like, you know what? I'm going to extend this haiku. I'm going to make this several stanzas, and I'm going to tell the story about our first date. The reason it was important for me to share a piece like this is because of what I said earlier in terms of society, not encouraging men in general, definitely not black men, to be vulnerable. And so I wanted to not just be vulnerable, but I want young. I want youth in general to understand that we can speak about ladies in a way that is beautiful and loving and affirming and not in a way that degrades them.
Roberto Germán [00:21:01]:
And my perspective was thinking about a lot of the young people that speak to when I'm in schools doing presentations and considering the content that they're consuming, a lot of the music that they're consuming. I'm a lyricist, I'm a writer. I analyze all of it. And so I'm somewhat tuned into what they're listening to. And I am concerned because I think a lot of the message that some of our youngsters are consuming, it reinforces the notion that women are objects. It reinforces the notion that we just have to, you know, see them in sexual ways. It. It reinforces certain terminology being referred to women that I won't state here, and I don't.
Roberto Germán [00:21:50]:
I don't want that for any of young ladies, But I have two daughters. One is eight and one is two. And I think about them and as their age, and I'm like, wait a second. Like, no, no, no, no, no. I don't want the. I don't want spoken of this way. And so how do I want my daughters being spoken of? And how do I want the others in my life to be spoken of? And. And how do I want people to speak of my wife, you know, and how do I want them to think about the nature of this relationship? And so I wanted to paint this beautiful picture that connects the two of us, but that also shows me expressing myself in a manner that is loving and beautiful and vulnerable.
Penny Kittle [00:22:34]:
I gotta tell you all boys that I've taught love poems like this for that reason. Right? It made me think of. I was teaching eighth grade, and it was our 13th anniversary, and my husband delivered 13 roses to school and had a teacher give them to different students. So all day long, I got a rose with a message on it, and we supervised a dance, like, a month later. And One of my 8th grade boys came up to my husband and said, listen, could you just tell me, how do you do that? How do you do that? It was like he was asking, how can I become romantic and vulnerable? Because they can tell how much I appreciated it, and, you know, just was like, wow. But I was so struck by how many of our young men in this culture don't know what this poem can Teach them. And they need this poem. Right.
Roberto Germán [00:23:23]:
It's not something we're often modeling.
Penny Kittle [00:23:26]:
Right, Right.
Roberto Germán [00:23:27]:
They need to be taught that. It needs to be modeled for them.
Penny Kittle [00:23:30]:
It does.
Roberto Germán [00:23:31]:
When I think about my son, who's five years old, I'm like, all right, what am I teaching him? And, you know, and I have my good moments and my bad moments, but I'm like, all right, let me think about some of the regular behaviors that he's noticing. And, you know, what are some practices that I really want him to pick up as he.
Penny Kittle [00:23:47]:
Yeah.
Roberto Germán [00:23:48]:
Gets older? Like, all right. Opening the door and hugging my wife and showing affection. You know, speaking to her with loving words.
Penny Kittle [00:23:56]:
Yeah. It's a big deal.
Roberto Germán [00:23:58]:
By the way, our 13th anniversary is coming up next week.
Penny Kittle [00:24:02]:
What? Okay. By the way, our 39th will be in December. Yeah.
Roberto Germán [00:24:09]:
Congratulations. I am.
Penny Kittle [00:24:10]:
Thank you. It's the best decision I ever made. Okay, so what do you got? What's your next?
Roberto Germán [00:24:17]:
All right, here we go. Here we go. So started off with a softer one now we're going to go in a different direction Unexpected tension that was my request. There you go.
Penny Kittle [00:24:33]:
Oh, my gosh. This is a great poem.
Roberto Germán [00:24:35]:
Request met black fist metal pick nestled in thick hair Big hair, don't care that's what I'm gonna wear with my emotions on my sleeve that's what my white mentor told me When I told him I'm leaving the school we both loved because the ceiling was low Whenever I looked up no chance to grow it was time to go Wondered if it had anything to do with how I glowed this was fairly common at a PWI Hard to see the underrepresented truly climb many reservations and I tried to tell him why but his lens was too blurred to see it through my eyes Unexpected tension took a toll Thought it was a joke till he hung up the phone this is what happened to me When I wouldn't fold When I wouldn't shut my mouth do as I was told Chose to venture out try to do it on my own but he refused to see me as mature and fully grown Determined to move forward vacated my role My mentor and former teachers Went from friends to foes Got an offer from a rival school they said I shouldn't go they said that it was lily white as if I didn't know Independent thinker I was not to be controlled Control was something other people thought they could hold over me Citing prior opportunities like the tuition assistance I received during my teens Remaining balanced and invisible debt I'd be lying if it said it didn't hurt. I. What? He's disloyal and selfish. Look at how we paid him back. Look at how he paid us back after we helped him. My thank you was no longer welcome. Went from poster boy to the lost son Mudded my name Attempts to defame my character Rumors by Rovento they tried to change the narrative. You could hear the disbelief in my laughter Began to view my mentor and former teachers as actors High praise often viewed as saviors Someone save them from their own behavior.
Roberto Germán [00:26:51]:
The complex became more complex. It's industrial. I saw through the nonsense the strings attached to gifts from philanthropists, the good old boys network, the chess moves, the politics. I was told I was a Benedict when my service was no longer for that benefit they were applauded and awarded celebrated syndrome where power gets hoarded Imperial ways like colonial days Tried to keep what I made but they were still at the gate Looked him dead in his eyes Said every word to his face Thought that you of all people would offer an embrace onto bigger and better Kept it moving with grace his reaction quite the opposite to my distaste Felt deep pain when we broke our ties Sudden shift in energy no good vibes I was excommunicated, no goodbye Saw him in public he wouldn't shake my hand, no lie But I started from the bottom I was destined to rise with my black fist Metal pick nestled in thick hair Big head, don't care, that's what I'm gonna wear where my emotions on my sleeve I only know how to be me. Thank you. Wow, that was a hard one to write.
Penny Kittle [00:28:17]:
Oh, there's so much pain.
Roberto Germán [00:28:20]:
That was a hard one to write. Me and my editor went back and forth, and I almost dropped it. And she said, go deeper. And I. Then I spent the next two days. I'm like, yeah, I'm not doing any. And after. In the third day, then I was like, yeah, she's right.
Roberto Germán [00:28:37]:
Came around. She. She offered a lot of good feedback. And this one she got me on. It's like, all right, fine, let's go. And then I just. Then it started to all come out. And what can I say? I wrote this piece because I lived it.
Roberto Germán [00:28:57]:
And I know that there are others like me who have lived the same experience, especially if you came through certain systems. You know, growing up in Lawrence, Massachusetts, being a basketball player, coming up through the boys club, there were opportunities for some of us to go to these prep schools and boarding schools. And I'm not saying it was all bad, because it wasn't, but this was bad. Sometimes you don't know until you know. You don't know until you start making decisions for yourself and you see how others respond, and you're like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. What happened here? Oh, unfortunately, that was part of my. My lived experience. Prior to that, I thought things.
Roberto Germán [00:29:50]:
I mean, things were great. And these people I loved, Loved. So I was so hurt. So, so, so hurt when. When this stuff happened. In the context of this, I'm not gonna name drop, including the institutions, but the context to this is that this, this was. This was a school I was connected to as a student, but then also later on as an employee. And so it was.
Roberto Germán [00:30:21]:
It's interesting going through that journey of the experience I had as a. As a learner, as a student. And then now I'm your colleague.
Penny Kittle [00:30:33]:
Yeah.
Roberto Germán [00:30:34]:
And I might have loved you as a teacher, but now I'm seeing some things and I'm hearing some things, and I'm not gonna shut up. I'm. I'm gonna say my piece. Gonna say my piece, right or wrong. And if I'm wrong, and I understand that, I'll come around and I'll admit that and I'll. I'll correct myself. But if I'm not wrong, then you might feel some type of way about what I have to say, especially if you don't see your actions as wrong, because you're accustomed to operating in a way where people just accept because of the power and influence, except what some of these individuals in positions of authority, what they do, what they say, how they move. And so, you know, this.
Roberto Germán [00:31:34]:
This is one. I think this is. This. This is a piece that a lot of individuals. No, I know. I know this for a fact. Actually, there's a number of individuals who, who have read this and they've gone through a similar experience and they're grateful that this is being voiced. And then there's a number of individuals that have no clue was like, wow, I didn't know this.
Roberto Germán [00:32:07]:
This happened. I didn't know you went through something like this. I'm like, yep. And unfortunately, it's not necessarily uncommon, for sure.
Penny Kittle [00:32:16]:
And that's why it will reach so many people. It's not only you're supposed to be grateful for all I gave you peace that so many people experience. Like that whole piece on philanthropists and wait, wait, wait. We're gonna do all kinds of things for you because it's. Listen, we're gonna use you.
Roberto Germán [00:32:36]:
It's so deep. It's so deep. I'm telling you that again. Sometimes these, These things are hard to see in the moment. Like when I was a student and they had us writing letters to individuals who made contributions to the schools to make the school more accessible to some of us. You know, I didn't, I didn't fully understand what was happening in the way, you know, and I get the whole thanking individuals for making contributions. You want them to continue to make contributions. But I think this conversations to be had about how things like that are handled, how it feels to recipients, but then also, like, this, what I address here, this notion of, like, oh, you feel like you have a sense of ownership over me?
Penny Kittle [00:33:28]:
Yeah.
Roberto Germán [00:33:28]:
Like, wait, you made this accessible. You made your inaccessible school accessible. And while I was a student, you know, I'm writing thank you notes and whatnot, and me and others, mainly kids that look like me, then I'm an adult and I see it happening. I'm like, oh, wait a second. Like, you know, this is still going on, but now, like, I'm an adult and you still think this experience is extended because you gave me an opportunity, even though I maxed, not only did I maximize the opportunity in the process, I made your school look good. Right. Like, I did everything that I was supposed to do and more.
Penny Kittle [00:34:10]:
Right.
Roberto Germán [00:34:12]:
And so, yes, you invested in me, but you got your, you got your roi.
Penny Kittle [00:34:17]:
You did, you did. And I've got students right now getting scholarships who will say, then they have to make scholarship calls as part of being a recipient, and they'll say, don't act like you gave this to me free. Pay me by the hour, the amount of stuff you're asking me to do. And I think that piece is just not talked about. Right. It's not just a gift. We now expect stuff.
Roberto Germán [00:34:42]:
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
Penny Kittle [00:34:45]:
And the pain of this when, you know, I won't even say goodbye and how could you be still, you know.
Roberto Germán [00:34:51]:
All of that, it's, oh, listen, listen, I, I, I wasn't, I was in utter disbelief. Like, my mental hung up the phone on me because he, he saw, like, I was dead serious. Like, I, I had accepted another job at a rival school and, and they were trying to convince me to stay. And I mean, the conversation went awry and it happened so quickly and I was like, what just happened? Like, wait, this is a good thing. This is a good thing. This other school that I went to, they paid for me to get my master's at Boston College. That's part of how I was able to make it happen. I'm like, listen, I can't be in debt my whole life, right?
Penny Kittle [00:35:41]:
Right.
Roberto Germán [00:35:42]:
It. So, yeah, it was just really strange and unfortunate. And the reason I started this piece with that opening line. Black fist, metal pick nestled in, thick hair, big, big head on kid. That's what I'm going with. Right? So, like, you know, while my hair is short right now, but my hair was long and. But every time I would ascend in these different roles, school leaders and whatnot, or other roles in education, particularly if I was going into a predominantly white institution, I'd always have. I feel conflicted about, like, all right, if I have, you know, my hair, like, you know, if I have it braided or twisted or too long or too this.
Roberto Germán [00:36:28]:
How are they going to view me? And, you know, is this going to be an issue? Will I not get the job because they focused on my hair? It's unfortunate, but, like, these are, you know, these are things that some of us have to consider. And so, like, when I left this particular institution, I felt this. This freedom. I felt this. Even though I was going to another predominantly white institution, Like, I just felt the whole new freedom. Like, you know what? Like, I'm here, I'm come. I'm showing up fully as me. You don't like it, no problem.
Roberto Germán [00:37:02]:
I'll go elsewhere. But I'm coming with my Afro. And if I decide to break braid my head, my head's gonna be braided, and if I want to twist, it's gonna be twisted. If I get locks, I'm gonna be like. And if you don't like it, that's fine. Because my hair does not define my character or my work. And the whole emotions on my sleeve, like, that's literally what I was like, that's what my mentor taught me. When we had that final conversation, it was like, not like, I'm too emotional, and that's why I'm making the.
Roberto Germán [00:37:29]:
Like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I might be. Actually, I might be. But, like, at least you know where I'm at. I'm straight up. I'm not telling you one thing and doing another. And I could be emotion. Very emotional and still have thought to this through, like, deeply.
Roberto Germán [00:37:44]:
And I did. It wasn't like a. Like, I took weeks to. I didn't want to leave. I wanted to stay. But I saw what was happening. I saw. They were playing me, and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Roberto Germán [00:37:57]:
I'm not. I'm not taking it. I'm better than this.
Penny Kittle [00:38:01]:
I just can only imagine that this poem is going to be important for kids that I teach because they need to know, they need to see that model of. I could say no, I could walk away. I could do something else. And you're giving them that. The pain that's there. You're not pretending that it's not going to be hard, but you're giving them that vision of walking away.
Roberto Germán [00:38:20]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. That's why I get into the whole complex. Like the white savior complex. Yeah, like, listen, I appreciate the help, but you're not my savior. I come from a two parent household. I was raised in my Christian faith, so I lean on that. Like, I have.
Roberto Germán [00:38:37]:
I have foundational stuff to guide me. Would it have been harder if I went to the local public school? Yes. I'm not gonna lie. There would have been some serious challenges there. Environmentally, I'm saying, for me, I. Other people, like my sister graduated from the high school. She was fun for me. They might.
Roberto Germán [00:38:56]:
There might have been some different pressures for me to deal with and whatnot. But ultimately, even if that was the case, I think I would have turned out just fine. Like, I had all the pieces in place to succeed. That's one of the reasons they wanted me at the school in the first place.
Penny Kittle [00:39:13]:
Yeah.
Roberto Germán [00:39:14]:
And so, you know, I'm offering, I'm challenging and encouraging folks with this piece to understand, like, hey, you might come from a Lawrence, Massachusetts. You might come from a place, you know, where there's poverty and this crime and there's issues of whatnot while still having a lot of richness. Lawrence is very rich. You know, I addressed that in City of Promise. And hey, your course might be a little more difficult or there might be people along the way that want to help you out and open doors. And that's fine. Explore that. Just don't lose sight of your value.
Roberto Germán [00:39:53]:
Don't lose sight of who you are and the fact that you were made beautifully and that you have the potential to shine wherever you're at, even though in some circumstances it may be harder, but shine nonetheless.
Penny Kittle [00:40:10]:
You are shining, right in the book of poetry. You are shining. You've got your light right out there in the world.
Roberto Germán [00:40:17]:
Thank you.
Penny Kittle [00:40:18]:
So what's your last poem?
Roberto Germán [00:40:21]:
What do you us? My last one is His Faith. Dedicated to my father, Cecilia Germán. Up early with the sun, knees sore from prayer, then phone calls and home visits to neighbors. Amidst his own pain. Dialysis three times a week. Weakened body needing rest, shivers, colds, fevers, coughs, pain. Paid their rents, funded their groceries until they stood on their own two feet. He understood.
Roberto Germán [00:40:57]:
When you arrived in the usa, ain't no boots Ain't no straps. Burdens of others. Strapped on his back, he carried across. Morando bajo la sombra del omnipotente. Siempre crelando y confiando. These were his words on the tip of his tongue and encouragement to others. My father pasted a herd of men that were like fatherless children along the right path through tranquility, temptation, and turbulence. Reprimanded when necessary, never abandoned.
Roberto Germán [00:41:28]:
Rather reminded me, you, them, and Senor Despera. Ah, so beautiful. My father passed away last February.
Penny Kittle [00:41:44]:
Sorry.
Roberto Germán [00:41:45]:
He has stage 5 kidney disease, and he was dealing with it since 2016. Had diabetes since he was 34, if I remember correctly. Maybe a little bit older. My father was the strongest man I knew. And I do what I do, you know, like when I'm going through things, I have to write. I had to write. I had to write to capture the final moments, capture some of his legacy, some of his character. Had to write to process my own feelings.
Roberto Germán [00:42:34]:
But I also knew that my father impacted so many people, and more so than I even realized. So I wanted to document this, and not just to uphold his legacy, but also so that those people that he impacted could circle back to this, you know, circle back, and whatever it does to them, right? Whether it makes them laugh, cry, or smile, you know, however it hits them, it hits them. But I offered them something to circle back to and offered something for my children to with, especially as they get older.
Penny Kittle [00:43:26]:
You know, how incredibly powerful that is. Look at this thing my aunt gave me. I was just out with my mom in Oregon. This is my grandmother's high school diary. Wow. 1929.
Roberto Germán [00:43:41]:
Wow.
Penny Kittle [00:43:42]:
And I'm like, this is an incredible gift. Whatever you write about your dad, that can be passed on, right? And my dad died in 2008, and I still write about him all the time. And I know that my children and my grandchildren will know who that man was if they ever stumble upon even all the unfinished writing that I do in my notebook.
Roberto Germán [00:44:04]:
Right.
Penny Kittle [00:44:04]:
We all search for our history at some point. Who were these people?
Roberto Germán [00:44:08]:
Yes.
Penny Kittle [00:44:09]:
Giving those glimpses, the final moments piece. Oh, so beautiful. I mean, this is a gorgeous collection. Verto.
Roberto Germán [00:44:18]:
Oh, so. So one of the things. Well, a couple things. One is it was important for me to use his words. Right. So y confiant. You know, like, this is something he would often say El Señor te espera, to use his words to also capture. My father was primarily a Spanish speaker, even though he lived here, you know, since.
Roberto Germán [00:44:59]:
I don't know, since the early 80s. My father was always in Dominican Republic. You know, he was here, but he was really over there. And so, you know, using Spanish language, I have it translated also. And. And. And then it was important for me to, again, model for. For others, but particularly for young men, that it's okay for you to be vulnerable around your grief.
Penny Kittle [00:45:35]:
Yeah.
Roberto Germán [00:45:36]:
Because oftentimes we're not taught how to deal with grief and how to process grief and, you know, so your morning can turn into a pain that can be detrimental to you and others if you don't really wrestle with that. And so that's another reason I wrote this piece, because I want people who are grieving, people who are mourning, people who are experienced deep sadness to know that they could utilize writing as a tool to get those emotions out and to process and. And just to share their feelings. And that doesn't make you weak.
Penny Kittle [00:46:20]:
Yeah.
Roberto Germán [00:46:20]:
If anything, you're strong and courageous for doing it.
Penny Kittle [00:46:25]:
Yeah. Strong and courageous for writing a book of poetry, putting it out in the world, talking about it, reading your poems aloud, even the ones that are hard to read.
Roberto Germán [00:46:36]:
Yes. Yes, this one was hard. The last two. They were hard for me to write. Not gonna lie. The last one. Final moments. I wrote it in my.
Roberto Germán [00:46:49]:
My father's hospital room.
Penny Kittle [00:46:51]:
Wow.
Roberto Germán [00:46:51]:
In Lawrence General Hospital. In his final. Yeah, I wrote it there every. But then I had to tweak it, you know, I had to fine tune in. So then I was like, I don't wanna. It was hard. It was hard to continue to revisit that. But I'm glad I did, and I'm glad my editor pushed me.
Roberto Germán [00:47:07]:
And. And even it wasn't like a ton of fine tuning that had to be done with. With that, but there was some. And even with the little bit that I had to do, it was like, oh, you know, it was. Because it was still. It's only been a year, you know, still fresh.
Penny Kittle [00:47:25]:
Yeah.
Roberto Germán [00:47:26]:
But again, glad that I. Glad that I did it. Glad that I went through the process. It also helps me to support others who are going through their. Their own grieving and mourning.
Penny Kittle [00:47:38]:
I'm glad that you wrote it too, and I am glad that you said you'd come talk to us. Seriously, this has been a great time for me and the people on this thread. I did a screenshot, you guys, so I will draw two random names and you get a message from me to send me your address, and I will send you a book. Such a pleasure to talk to you. Keep writing. I hope you have many publications in your future.
Roberto Germán [00:48:02]:
Thank you.
Penny Kittle [00:48:03]:
And I'm just grateful that you were here.
Roberto Germán [00:48:06]:
Thank you. No, I appreciate you, Penny. I do continue to write. I have several poems that are coming out in some different publications, including the NCTE English Journal I have. And that one's I'll give you awesome insight. I got a piece that I shared at NCTE this this past year that is now going to be in the English Journal. It's titled Ricardo and this one is more along the lines of the stuff that I write. I have poetry that's based on schooling experiences, classroom based experiences, and I'm potentially working on a project that's centered around poetry.
Penny Kittle [00:48:52]:
PD Nice.
Roberto Germán [00:48:54]:
And so you know, if you're, if you're members of the English Journal entity, check that piece out. Coming out soon. But thank you for the encouragement. Thank you for, for the time to be here to share with you. So I'm just enthused by the work that you're doing, Penny. And I, I love the opportunity to process my own work. Even though I'm not a person who actually likes to talk about myself. But I appreciate the opportunity to talk about my writing and the why, the why behind things.
Penny Kittle [00:49:32]:
Absolutely. You have a wonderful weekend.
Roberto Germán [00:49:35]:
Thank you.
Penny Kittle [00:49:36]:
Thank you. You're a gift.
Roberto Germán [00:49:37]:
Thank you. As always, your engagement in our classroom is greatly appreciated. Be sure to to subscribe, rate the show and write a review. Finally, for resources to help you understand the intersection of race, bias, education and society, go to multiculturalclassroom.com Peace and love from your host, Roberto Germán.
