Roberto Germán [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Our Classroom. In this space, we talk about education, which is inclusive of, but not limited to what happens in schools. Education is taking place whenever and wherever we are willing to learn. I am your host, Roberto Germán, and our classroom is officially in session. Welcome back to Our Classroom. Today I'm joined by Eric Royo, founder of Hip Hop Building Blocks, an innovative program that fuses hip hop culture with social emotional learning. A lifelong hip hop artist and seasoned educator, Eric brings over a decade of classroom experience and a passion for empowering youth through beats, history and identity. His work helps students build stronger relationships, embrace cultural pride, and learn through the powerful lens of hip hop.
Roberto Germán [00:01:07]:
Welcome to our classroom, Eric.
Erick Royo [00:01:10]:
Yes. Yes, thank you. I appreciate that. I appreciate the intro. So it's always a pleasure. That could be a new album intro right there. So I appreciate that right there.
Roberto Germán [00:01:19]:
Hey, from one emcee to another, we going, we going to make it pop today on the podcast.
Erick Royo [00:01:25]:
That's it. I feel it. I really feel it.
Roberto Germán [00:01:27]:
I love when I get a chance to chop it up with hip hop educators. You know, it just, it gives the show a different flow definitely. So appreciate your time. And I'm wondering about what inspired you to build an educational platform grounded in hip hop and SEL. We know that social emotional learning is essential for, for people in general. Right. But definitely for, for our youth. And I'm also wondering, was, was there a moment or experience that made you realize this was the path you needed to take?
Erick Royo [00:02:03]:
Yeah. Well, first, thank you for having me. You know, I definitely listen to the, to the podcast. I know you got some. Sometimes you have some heavy hitters who do some things in. In the world and so I just feel honored to be on with you as well. So, yeah, I'm a life like you said, I'm a lifelong hip hopper, hip hop head man. I'm from New York, born and raised.
Erick Royo [00:02:23]:
It's in my blood. Just the culture of it is really in my blood, which is a whole other thing than just the music created. You know, had groups and things of that nature, but just freestyle and flows. When you a kid and in the parks and just feeling that essence of hip hop and my body just gave me empowerment and really just gave me a sense of belonging, gave me a sense of. Gave me a voice. You know, I was never someone who was super studious or even really articulate in schools and I really got talked down to because of that. But anytime we in a cipher and I'm with my people and I just have a different voice and a different, just energy. You Know, I was blessed to be part of hip hop as a business for a couple of years.
Erick Royo [00:03:14]:
It took me around the world. And you asked about kind of that moment of when I thought about hip hop as an educational platform. We were actually doing a little bit of a tour in Australia. I got to be in Australia for a couple of weeks doing some things with different musical groups. And I met Aboriginal people, right. I never. I knew somewhat about Aboriginal people, but I didn't know about the culture. And I go there and they're people who are just like MCs, right.
Erick Royo [00:03:44]:
And embracing the culture as I did. Right. Because it was there. It is extremely oppressive conditions over there. And they live in these places called missions, which are like the hood, where I would befriend people just because of the person I am. And they would take me around their missions and we would build with people and we would have ciphers and they would have their brand of hip hop that talked about their issues and things of that nature. And I was able to kind of connect with the youth over there. It was just equally mutually inspiring to see their culture, but also me being from New York, coming all the way over there, they don't see a lot of people from the Mecca who really can bring that essence with them and just having those discussions.
Erick Royo [00:04:30]:
And we kind of started having informal workshops where. Where we would get with their groups of kids, middle schoolers, elementary school kids, we would get the mic out, we would have these ciphers. And it kind of sparked in my mind like, yo, this is dope, man. This feeling is really dope. To be able to pass this culture on and connect with these young kids and just to see what they were able to do just from inspiration, without it even being something really formal. To then fast forward my years through music, my years as an educator, and then finally being like, yeah, those experiences was kind of the catalyst for, like, let me really form something where there's a social, emotional component through the lens of hip hop. Right? What. What would that look like? Why is it important? Why is it.
Erick Royo [00:05:16]:
It's been important to me. How do I now spread that and share that with other people? So that's kind of where it. The, the. The evolution of it came. But that's where that seed came from.
Roberto Germán [00:05:25]:
That's dope, man. From the Mecca to Australia.
Erick Royo [00:05:28]:
Exactly. From Brisbane, from the Bronx to Brisbane. What they call Brisbane, New York.
Roberto Germán [00:05:32]:
That's amazing. That's a chapter in the book.
Erick Royo [00:05:35]:
Exactly, exactly. It's coming. It's coming.
Roberto Germán [00:05:39]:
You know, in your site, Hip Hop Building Blocks, you, you talk about those blocks. And I'm wondering, as we consider foundational blocks that every student needs emotionally, socially and academically, how does hip hop help develop those blocks and what are some of those blocks that our young people need?
Erick Royo [00:06:07]:
For sure. Well, I try to keep true to the essence of hip hop. And a classroom or school I come to, I always bring that peace, love, unity, having fun, right? Because that's like the mainstay of where hip hop culture came from. That's what the block parties were about, that's what the jams were about. Really simple, right? Is it peaceful?
Roberto Germán [00:06:28]:
Even as you say that, it makes me think about a lost boy song back in the day. Love, peace and unity.
Erick Royo [00:06:35]:
Exactly, exactly. And that, and that theme has been throughout the true hip hop culture. And I really say true hip hop culture because obviously as we move on and evolve, I feel like sometimes the music that you hear has kind of been detached from what the culture is. But if you look at the artists and you look at the people who stay true to the culture, those themes have always been in their music or in their life. And when I go to schools, I always try to bring that and I put that in the forefront, right? I talk to kids about peace, love, unity, having fun. And we have discussions about what that means to them because it means different people, they see it in different ways. But to me that's the essential of what those hip hop building blocks are. I work a lot with elementary cause I'm an elementary school teacher.
Erick Royo [00:07:20]:
That's really the, the lens and just, just my vibe, I'm an elementary school teacher by vibe, you know what I'm saying? And I have. The other part of it is we look at his elements for elementary, right? So I look at those hip hop elements and how they can really help kids connect to that peace, love, unity, having fun when they're engaged in those elements. And I create these environments where number one, we talk about the history, but now let's do. Because hip hop is doing right, it's feeling. You can learn about it by talking about it and that's great. But if you're not engaged and involved in a community of people that's like minded and expressing themselves in similar ways, whether that's graffiti, tagging up something, creating these pieces you write in lyrics, you're curating and mixing music, you moving your body in different ways and you're with other people in those like minded scenarios, that that's how the community builds and that's really where those building blocks come from, right? So it's like, how do we teach kids and talk about these principles, but then how do we get them to engage, to really feel the principles so they're not just talked about, but they're actually practiced and lived.
Roberto Germán [00:08:28]:
You, you mentioned that that's how the community builds. And I want to build on that notion.
Erick Royo [00:08:34]:
Yes.
Roberto Germán [00:08:34]:
So how does your approach help students strengthen relationships with themselves, their peers, their communities? And what changes do you see when SEL is taught through culturally responsive tools like hip hop?
Erick Royo [00:08:50]:
For sure. So I've worked in many schools that had many different approaches to social emotional learning. So I've kind of been trained and learned on these, these practices that have been out there. And I've always seen that they've been rooted in white culture, right? And not necessarily a good or bad thing, but it's always the lens that's been shown, right? It's like this is the language we're using, this is the styles that we're using. And it works to some degrees for different people. But number one, for me, it's not as comfortable. And then for the kids who didn't grow up in that environment is not as comfortable either, but they still need to benefit from it, right? So when I work at other schools that are majority black and brown people, and I try to bring some of these tools in, either the school is not using them at all because it's not rooted in their language, so they kind of eliminate social emotional learning, or they just don't know how to do it. It's not, it's not, the kids don't respond to it.
Erick Royo [00:09:45]:
So for me, bringing hip hop in, bringing the lens, bringing the music, bringing the sounds, bringing the culture to it, there's immediate buy in from the kids because they're talking about things that they know in their life already or that they've seen or that they're used to, they're accustomed to. They're used to having a call and response, you know, in a certain vibe and a certain, in a certain tone. There's all these little kind of small little components that hip hop brings that they're just used to. So it's just, it's that buy in from the top, right? Even just me as an, as an emcee, I bring the MC style into the classroom, right? There's things and you go to a hip hop show, everyone's tuned in, right? Everyone's saying the lyrics. But some people like the bar, buying some, some drinks, some people doing something here, some people, not everyone, everyone is feeling their own vibe. But they're all tuned in together. And that's kind of how I approach my classes. This is a hip hop show, right? This is the hip hop show.
Erick Royo [00:10:47]:
When I say hip, y' all say hop. And everybody's seeing it back and forth, right? So it's the buy in is the really important part of it. It's the buy in of the vibe. And then I bring the aspect of look. This is a community. This is the block party, right? Here are the different elements that go on in the block party. Choose where you want to be, right? Choose where you want to be. Here's the lens that I want you to look through, right? We're talking about community.
Erick Royo [00:11:11]:
How do you emcees over here form a community using your lyrics? How do you artists build your community using your art forms? Right. Maybe we're making a mural together, right? And here's the lens by which we're doing that mural. So it's the whole vibe of it, right? The block party, the hip hop show. The culture that I was given and I was embraced, that I embrace. I'm trying to bring that to them to see, look, you can be an individual, but with the goal of creating for the. The greater the good.
Roberto Germán [00:11:41]:
Yeah. So what? Teachers, educators, what type of vibe are you creating in your classroom spaces? What type of vibe are you creating in your school? If you want that call and response, if you want that, everybody get your hands up and they put their hands up and you got to create a particular type of vibe and they have to feel connected to you.
Erick Royo [00:12:03]:
Exactly.
Roberto Germán [00:12:03]:
Comes down to in not just creating the atmosphere, but also being intentional and pursuing those relationships, those enduring relationships, meaningful relationships. That's dope. Thank you. Thank you for sharing. Breaking that down. I'm wondering about challenges that you have faced either in schools systems or perceptions when introducing hip hop pedagogy in educational spaces. And how do you respond to critics who may not see it as academic enough?
Erick Royo [00:12:38]:
Yeah, this, this, this happens, right? This happens, you know, in my class, when I have a class, I can create that world. I can curate it, I can cultivate, I can build it with the kids. They see the. The vision behind it. Not all schools, administrators or other teachers always see that as well. Right. I mentioned before, you know, hip hop music a lot of times today is disconnected from hip hop culture. And a lot of times people from the outside who aren't part of the culture understand it.
Erick Royo [00:13:08]:
They see it here music, and they're. Oh, those are the lyrics. Like, that's, that's what you're bringing into the classroom. And that, that's a real thing. Right. Like, I've had a lot of. I've had pushback when they. There's no time for us to discuss.
Erick Royo [00:13:22]:
And they're just saying, what do you mean? You're bringing hip hop into the classroom. So for me, it's, it's important to talk about it in the scope of a culture. Right. And so that's why it's important to lay the history and the foundation of where it came from. I do an assembly with schools at times that, that talks about it. Sometimes it talks about it from the lens of oppression, sometimes it talks about it as a carry on tradition of black and brown culture. And I try to show that lineage because to me it's important that they see, oh, it is a culture that's bigger than what it. Where it is right now.
Erick Royo [00:13:56]:
Right. All culture has things in it that like, yeah, that's good. That's not good. Like, that's what culture is. Right. You don't throw out a library because there's one bad book in it. Right. You read a book, that's terrible.
Erick Royo [00:14:07]:
You're not going to burn the library down, right? You. Well, I guess, depends where you are in the country. I guess it depends where you are in the country. I don't believe in that philosophy. I believe in that. When you look at culture, you gotta look holistically.
Roberto Germán [00:14:21]:
Yeah.
Erick Royo [00:14:21]:
You gotta see what its intentions are, how it's formed, the people that are involved in it. And it's, it's human, right? And humans aren't perfect. So if you're gonna pick and choose what points you look at, right? And, and people do, and people do pick and choose. They justify their racism or their sexism or whatever ism they have by picking and choosing parts of culture and say, no, look, this is the bad part of it. That's why we don't like it. But I try to show the lineage, show the history, show the grander scope of it so that it's not just like, yeah, we're looking at Tupac lyrics today. And then they look at the lyrics like, wait a minute, why are you looking at this? There's a reason and there's a history behind it and there's a connection to the kids and to me. Whenever you talk to a school, how does it impact the kids? That's always my first discussion.
Erick Royo [00:15:14]:
Because if you, if you see it impacts the kids positively and you still have an issue, then. Then you need to reevaluate what you're doing as an Educator, Right. Like if you just have one lens, like, no, this is how education is. But wait a minute, what I'm doing is really impacting the kids positively. If you still have an issue, then I question you as an educator. So that's really my approach. I need to show you the whole scope of it and build that history of the culture behind it.
Roberto Germán [00:15:38]:
Yeah, that's essential. That's essential. Give them that context, give them that history, bring them through the trajectory. Right. Essentially the evolution of hip hop so that folks are in the process suspending their assumptions and working off of knowledge, really.
Erick Royo [00:16:02]:
And then, and then it's a tool because like as the saying goes, hip hop didn't create anything, it reinvented everything. Right. Like people have always done poetry, right? People have always spoken word, people have always painted on walls, right. People always move their bodies for dances. Hip hop just formulated in, in a way that has a certain lingo, a certain movement, a certain vibe to it that created its own thing, right? So it's the tool. So you can't down, you can't hate music, you can't hate spoken word as an art form or painting as an art form. And then so I try to show it in that light, right? This is a greater art form that hip hop just embraced and cultivated in a certain way.
Roberto Germán [00:16:45]:
True, true, true, indeed. And talking about cultivation and hip hop, one of the things I love about hip hop culture is the way it brings people together. And I love to see different types of collaboration that really inspire and so working off of that notion. When you think about collaboration and in your view, what does meaningful collaboration between organizations like yours and others like Multicultural Classroom look at in action and what impact could we create together?
Erick Royo [00:17:21]:
Yeah, I think, I think it takes time and work and effort. There's an intention involved. Like I see a like minded person, like even just looking at your site, like, yeah, they have a lot of principles that I believe in and a lot of approaches that I believe in. Right. So this was a first step. Let me reach out, let me just say what's up, right? Let me see how that connection can happen. Right. Then there was a response.
Erick Royo [00:17:46]:
Hey, let's do this right? And now we have a conversation. So how do we now, number one, I always look to document things that, whether it's conversations or things that we have done together, I think it's really important to be able to look back and say, okay, here's where, here's what we've done, right? This, now we can look at, we can reflect and say, okay, what are some next steps? Or maybe, you know, we need to veer off in different directions or whatever it is, but need to be able to look back and have a documentation of what's been done and then just somewhat consistency, right? And I've done this with other groups where it's like, hey, let's, let's, let's, let's build next month, right? Let's try to get a monthly down on the calendar just to check in, right? And if we have to switch it, that's cool. You know, people's lives are busy, we can do that. But let's get a monthly. I think having that attention of putting something down, right? Documenting what's been said, what's been done. You kind of got to build an entity, right? It has to be something like, it's great to have conversations. A lot of times you have conversations, you go one way, I go other way. Yeah, it's in your mind, but, but it's not always.
Erick Royo [00:18:53]:
It's not always solidified, right? You don't. Everybody's doing different things. We're having conversations with different people. It doesn't always just stick. But if I look back, like even this, I look back at the podcast, right? Listen back, you know what? He said something there that I didn't even really think about, and that's just going to spark me to maybe do something else and also just to motivate me to say, you know what, Let me reach out again, let me try to keep connecting. So I'm looking at it as educators. We need to disrupt this system, right? I think everyone who's trying to do that understands that they're trying to do something different. Because what's been done for the last hundred, two hundred years in America, it has to change, right? And it changes slow and it changes at paces.
Erick Royo [00:19:35]:
And we're losing kids like, we're losing their minds, right? We're losing them physically in the classrooms. You know, I see more and more kids like, I'm going homeschool and say what you want. I don't know if that's necessarily the answer, but they're leaving the communities of these other children and people that can help positively influence each other. And I know that's not positive, right? So what is it that we can bring the kids back, bring the teachers back? Because teachers, I'm like, yo, I'm done with this, right? Myself being one of them, right? How do we create these places where people want to be, where it's no longer, oh, I need to go to school or if you don't go to school, this. It's like, no, no, I gotta go to school today. We. We got this to get done. Like, I'm gonna see you later.
Erick Royo [00:20:18]:
I want to create that environment, and obviously I want building with people who have like minds, I think is really the only way so that we can now have this movement. So that's undeniable. So when you go to a school and you have all these people, all these approaches, and it's like, look, you can't just say mine. You don't, like, here's all of ours. Right. If you can't find some way to fit this in, then you should really rethink how you're approaching education. So that's just how I see the collaboration. I just want it to be a movement.
Erick Royo [00:20:47]:
I just want to be part of that. So whatever I can do to help move that forward.
Roberto Germán [00:20:50]:
So, yeah, absolutely, man. Makes me think about a number of things. One is that we're the holders of our history, right?
Erick Royo [00:20:59]:
Yes.
Roberto Germán [00:20:59]:
When I hear you talk about documentation and just like, yeah, we. We need to hold that history, because if we don't, then somebody else is going to tell it. And we need to be driving our own narratives, which is why we should be writing. We should be writing books, writing songs, creating videos, doing murals. All the things that help to bring our stories alive. Yeah, that's one of the things that folks who are committed to the culture do, is that they bring their stories alive through dancing. I think about my man Steve Garcia, who's an adjunct professor at Harvard and teaching a hip hop class over there. Actually, he would be a dope, professional person for us to do a panel with.
Roberto Germán [00:21:47]:
Think about my guy, Jackson Garcia, who's a dean of students at a school in South Florida, will also be a contributor. Robert Lutrugillo, who's author and illustrator, who also would be a dope contributor to the Conversation, representing Oakland. Yeah, My guy Rex from who's Where I'm from Lawrence, Massachusetts, although he's living in Atlanta, Georgia now, who's been on the scene for a minute, and just an amazing lyricist. So, you know, I think about all of these individuals who are contributing positively and utilizing hip hop as a way to uplift the culture, as a way to engage the people, as a way to tell stories, as a way to help guide the youth. And so, you know, thank you for sharing that of that stuff because it's giving me ideas about how it is that we could draw in a number of different individuals and. And collectively engage in meaningful conversation. But also, you know, collaborate even beyond that.
Erick Royo [00:22:54]:
Yeah. And this is, and when I have conversations, like, I want to thank you because this is super inspiring. You know, when I'm in schools, I'm almost like a different person. Like I got to talk differently, you know what I'm saying? Like, to get my point across, it has to be very different. Like when I could talk to someone where they just know where I'm coming from, what I'm about, just, just from their approach, I can talk as myself, you know, and, and more comes out, more meaningful things come out than when I'm in these schools and I'm talking to people who just don't understand what I'm saying and I have to try to manipulate my language so that they understand it. Like that's tiring, you know, so, so, you know, I appreciate, again, just having this conversation with like minded people allows me to be myself.
Roberto Germán [00:23:38]:
So facts, facts. Yeah, I get it. As a former school principal, you know, I had to do a lot of massaging the delivery, for sure, for sure. In order to be able to, you know, move the needle forward, get the people where I need to be. As we wrap up here, I notice you're wearing a US Open shirt. Obviously, it takes place in New York.
Erick Royo [00:24:01]:
That's right.
Roberto Germán [00:24:02]:
So a question that comes to mind for me is if they told these tennis players like, yo, in order for you to win this match, you gonna have to spit a 16. It's gotta be hard. Who you going with? Who's the tennis player that you're going with that you think is gonna bar up?
Erick Royo [00:24:24]:
You know, Tiafo is my man. And I feel like, I feel like he got some flow in him. Although I saw yesterday or the day before Joker, you know, was, was, was in the locker room and Fat Joe came in and he was spitting some Fat Joe lyrics to him word, which, which was tight. And I was like, okay, joke. Joker got some of that in him too. So I could see them too on some 8 mile battle going back and forth. Little Joker and Tiafo. I could see that.
Roberto Germán [00:24:52]:
Okay, okay. You know, I think, I think I'd go with Carlos Alcaraz because folks don't know, you know, like, the Spanish got that thing going too when it comes to hip hop.
Erick Royo [00:25:09]:
They do. And the language flows. The language flows.
Roberto Germán [00:25:13]:
And I feel like, you know, he'd come with some, some, some Spanish bars and worked in the vosotros.
Erick Royo [00:25:20]:
And then he got the Onyx ball head. Right now he got the Onyx ball head.
Roberto Germán [00:25:25]:
So he, you know, he got the look right now, man. He got look right now. So I. I'd have to go with him. On the women's side, I'd have to go with Naomi Osaka.
Erick Royo [00:25:36]:
Okay, okay.
Roberto Germán [00:25:37]:
She was in a relationship with Corde.
Erick Royo [00:25:40]:
She was.
Roberto Germán [00:25:40]:
She was baby daddy, I feel like.
Erick Royo [00:25:42]:
That's right.
Roberto Germán [00:25:43]:
You know, I feel like on the low, she sneak up and surprise some people. She's. She's like a silent assassin. I'd have to go.
Erick Royo [00:25:51]:
Cheers. I got Coco in that one, though. I got Coco. Coco is my girl. She the one for me, so.
Roberto Germán [00:25:56]:
And Coco got a good MC name.
Erick Royo [00:25:58]:
Yes. You can't go wrong with that. You can't go wrong with that.
Roberto Germán [00:26:01]:
Yeah, I'm not mad at that. I'm not mad at that. Well, we appreciate your time, man. For folks that want to learn more about your work, they want to connect with you, they want to explore the pedagogy. Where can they learn more? Where can they follow you?
Erick Royo [00:26:18]:
Yeah, so the site is hiphopbuildingblocks.com. So that's kind of a place where you can kind of read the story, see what I offer in terms of going to schools and the workshops and things of that nature. If you look at the Hip Hop Building Blocks on my Instagram, that'll give you a real visual of what I do. I've always put up things that the kids are doing. Everything I do, you'll see the kids explain it, the kids demonstrate it.
Roberto Germán [00:26:46]:
That.
Erick Royo [00:26:46]:
That to me, that's really the biggest sales pitch or just vision of what I'm doing is when you see the kids in action, it's really undeniable to see the joy they have on their faces, the, you know, the expression that they going through. And. And it's. It's just a beautiful thing to see. So I would say, you know, hiphopbuildingblocks.com @hiphopbuildingblocks on my Instagram, Hip Hop Building blocks on the YouTube. Just look at those and, you know, reach out. I'm. I'm happy to come to schools.
Erick Royo [00:27:15]:
I work with teach right now. I'm working with schools and teachers and helping them curate some. Some libraries from elementary schools and also just bringing some social, emotional learning and management into. Into classrooms. I'm working with teachers right now doing that because a lot of teachers are struggling, struggling right now.
Roberto Germán [00:27:34]:
So, yeah, it's real in the battlefield. But there you have it, folks. There you have it. If you need resources, you're trying to switch it up. You're trying to create a particular vibe in the classroom that's to.
Erick Royo [00:27:45]:
Going.
Roberto Germán [00:27:45]:
Gonna make learning fun. That's gonna. Yes, social, emotional learning. That's also going to incorporate hip hop culture and help you in terms of managing your classroom. Because we know that at the end of the day, classroom management comes down to relationships and engagement. Hey, hit up Eric Royo. Hip Hop Building Blocks. Thank you very much.
Roberto Germán [00:28:09]:
We appreciate it. Learned a lot, man. And. And looking forward to learning more from the work that you're doing now.
Erick Royo [00:28:15]:
I appreciate you. Thank you, man. I'm glad we could connect.
Roberto Germán [00:28:18]:
No doubt. As always, your engagement in our classroom is greatly appreciated. Be sure to subscribe, rate the show, and write a review. Finally, for resources to help you understand the intersection of race, bias, education, and society, go to multiculturalclassroom.com. Peace and love from your host, Roberto Germán.
