Roberto Germán [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Our Classroom. In this space, we talk about education, which is inclusive of, but not limited to, what happens in schools. Education is taking place whenever and wherever we are willing to learn. I am your host, Roberto Germán, and Our Classroom is officially in session. Welcome back to Our Classroom. Today I have my man, 100 Grand, my brother Will Smith, but affectionately known as Juni to me and, and people in my circle. Shout out the whole Soul Kalibur Movement. If you know, you know.
Roberto Germán [00:00:47]:
Um, my brother Will, my brother Will Smith, my brother Juni. He's, uh, he spent 20 years on both sides of high school graduation, so he has seen the educational journey from nearly every angle. He has spent more than a decade in middle and high school classrooms and led youth development initiatives at the YMCA before moving into higher education. And for the past 5 years, as a Guided Pathways advisor, he has helped students transition into college and build sustainable paths towards their goals. And drawing on his time in the classroom, his work in higher ed, and his firsthand experience as a parent, Will brings a grounded perspective on challenges students face as they move between educational systems, on the critical skills they need to solve problems and to advocate for themselves and thrive beyond the classroom. And so we're going to dig into thinking about and talking about the way we're prepping students for life after K through 12. Well, thank you for being here, my brother.
Will Smith [00:01:58]:
Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure to be here.
Roberto Germán [00:02:02]:
Oh, for sure, for sure, man. And the pleasure's all mine to have the opportunity to chop it up and really process things, you know? And this really stemmed from a video you had shared with me on TikTok. I was thinking about that particular content and this conversation surfaced about the way we're prepping young people. And it got me to thinking and wondering what it is that you're seeing now that you couldn't see before. Things that perhaps you didn't understand fully working in K through 12, but now you have a a whole new lens on it. So maybe we could start there.
Will Smith [00:02:50]:
Yeah, um, one of the things that's been pretty evident is that a lot of the, the things that students were struggling with when I was in the classroom, a lot, which was the last time was like COVID area 2021, and so now a lot of those kids that I graduated as 8th graders are now entering into college. So a lot of the things that we were trying to kind of remediate, a lot of those habits are carrying over. And it wasn't— and it's not just students that were based in the system where I worked at. It seems like it's kind of for this entire generation of students that we're coming across. A lot of students that come into my office. So at the school I work at, we use placement for English and math, and, you know, students have to take a placement test in some cases. And more so than less, a lot of students end up placing into the foundational English. So it's like foundational English before they can actually take English 101.
Will Smith [00:04:05]:
They had placed into foundational math before they go into college-level math. You know, it's not that way across the board, but it's more— it happens more frequently than you would expect.
Speaker B [00:04:22]:
Mm.
Will Smith [00:04:22]:
And, you know, another thing is some students aren't really able to Communicate. Communication tends to be something that is a struggle, whether it's communication in person verbally, or even written communication such as emails. There's, there's been times where I receive an email and the entire message is written in the subject line.
Roberto Germán [00:04:51]:
Wow.
Will Smith [00:04:52]:
And these are college students. And I'm like, Okay, or if, you know, they're able to write the message in the body is written like a text message. No punctuation, no capitalization. And it's like, whoa, you know, so—
Roberto Germán [00:05:06]:
That's alarming.
Will Smith [00:05:08]:
Yeah. So, you know, it's definitely, you know, a gap and something that's missing. But then conversely, there are students that are academically prepared, You know, strong students academically, but still those social skills, those self-advocacy skills, you know, the ability to interact with adults or just other individuals that aren't within their peer group, that sometimes tends to be a challenge.
Speaker B [00:05:40]:
That's, that's hard to hear and discouraging in many ways, certainly. we should be thinking about and concerned about what's happening, where the gaps are. And schools spend a lot of time asking whether students are ready for the next grade, the next test, or graduation. But is that the same thing as preparing them to function independently once they leave us?
Roberto Germán [00:06:08]:
And again, like, where are you seeing this gap?
Speaker B [00:06:12]:
Do you, like, based on what you've experienced, with those who are transitioning into the higher ed environment, I'm sure it's easy to point at, hey, they're not being prepared in high school. But, you know, from my experience, typically when a student's already at that point, there were likely some foundational gaps even before that, or at least in some cases. It might've been middle school, it might've been elementary, might've been even earlier than that.
Roberto Germán [00:06:46]:
So I'm wondering, you know, where are you—
Speaker B [00:06:48]:
are you able to identify and pinpoint where some of those gaps might be coming from or where it is that you're seeing those gaps?
Will Smith [00:07:01]:
There's definitely gaps all throughout the K-12 process, right? It's whether there's certain gaps within their basic arithmetic. Gaps within just general foundations of writing, having a thesis statement, actually presenting your thesis statement and providing evidence, general punctuation. And what I realized was actually when I was teaching in the classroom, we actually had an intervention for students that were entering 6th grade specifically designed to kind of help close the gaps with fractions and decimals. We called it Math Boot Camp. So me and the principal, we kind of endeavored together and kind of created this intervention for the students to kind of close that gap in their learning so that way by the time they were done with that program, they were actually able to, you know, multiply, add, subtract, divide fractions, learn how to convert fractions to decimals, and kind of see the connection between. Because I could speak— I speak specifically coming from a math lens because the last 7 years in the classroom, that's what I predominantly taught. But you can see the gaps when you're doing new, new, new steps, new new lessons, you know. Okay, and the one thing about math is that if you have a gap in your foundation, the more advanced stuff is going to be more challenging because math just builds one step on top of the other.
Will Smith [00:08:57]:
So sometimes, you know, we're like doing Equations, and they're like, wait, I don't even— what do you mean, like 2 over 3? How do I get that? And it's like, okay, 2 over 3 is written as a fraction, but you also know that this means to divide. You know, sometimes you have to take them back to 4th grade to kind of supplement that gap that they have just so that they're able to process what's actually being taught. And, you know, I was fortunate to work in the school that we had a lot of support. We had, you know, teaching assistants to kind of pull small groups and reinforce that. But there's, you know, not all districts or even all schools are fortunate to have that extra support. So the schools that I worked in, we were able to kind of help close those gaps, but I know A lot of students don't have that support and they're kind of just making it through barely. Yeah.
Roberto Germán [00:10:00]:
And I want to build upon the— you mentioned foundation and you were talking about, you know, if you missed the early steps in math, right? Our original conversation was actually about phonics.
Speaker B [00:10:12]:
And you told me about recognizing that your own child was struggling with multisyllabic words.
Roberto Germán [00:10:19]:
So you went back and worked on some foundational skills at home. What did that experience teach you about how easily a child can continue moving through school while still carrying an unfinished learning need?
Will Smith [00:10:34]:
Uh, it definitely— it showed me that, you know, if even if students haven't mastered certain standards, And then if they're able to keep up and there's not like an extreme deficit, they'll move them along to the next, to the next level. And hopefully whatever gaps they have will be closed, which in a lot of cases isn't. So fortunately, you know, coming from an education background, I was able to pinpoint that early and mitigate that and to supplement and to implement, you know, supports for him. A lot of students don't have that. So, you know, again, teachers only have children for a certain amount of time, and, you know, they're balancing classroom management, lesson plans, Mm-hmm. behavior issues. So It's unrealistic to expect teachers to actually teach their current curriculum and also go back and fill in whatever gaps your child doesn't have. So as a parent, you definitely have to be active, you know, even if you don't come from an education lens, there's tools out there for you to support your child.
Will Smith [00:11:58]:
There's free tools, you know, there's definitely resources available, you just have to actually go and look for them. So, you know, by having a conversation also with, you know, my son's teacher, I was able to like say, hey, I noticed he's struggling with this, are you noticing the same thing? And then we have dialogue and then they're like, okay, well, these are, you know, some of the interventions that we're doing here at the school, you know. And they actually was like, hey, have you tried doing this with your child? I'm like, yeah, I'm actually going back to do phonics because I noticed that he's struggling when I'm saying, hey, chunk your words, and he's looking at me like, what do you mean chunk your words? And I'm like, wait, you don't know what chunking words are? So then we had to like go back to the basics. And then after, you know, a week or two of doing that, he started to catch on. He's like, oh, okay, I know what this is. So now when he sees multisyllabic words is not as challenging. He just has to take his time.
Speaker B [00:13:02]:
Yeah, and I want to place emphasis on what you stated there because basically you're getting at the fact that there is a responsibility. Well, both parties have a responsibility, right? The school has a responsibility, the family has a responsibility. There is some overlap. And as parents, so for all the parents that are listening right now, hey, receive this: we have to be the best advocates for our children. And yes, part of the advocacy is meeting with the school representatives, right? Meeting with the teachers and whoever else one needs to meet with and ensuring that we're on the same page and that we're understanding what's happening on the school side of things and they're understanding what's happening on the home front. But part of the advocacy is also us doing the work at home as parents to reinforce what needs to be reinforced so we could strengthen the skills of our children, right? The education does start at home. It can't be a drop-off, hey, you got this, let me know how it goes. All right, just want to be clear, want to be honest, want to be upfront, want to challenge and encourage us as parents to really embrace the opportunity to be great advocates for our kids.
Speaker B [00:14:24]:
by also implementing the learning at home. And as, as Will stated, there are resources available and we want to make sure we're in partnership with the schools.
Roberto Germán [00:14:37]:
You know, that being said, do you think there's also a danger on the other side that schools and families can become so focused on helping young people succeed that we accidentally prevent them from learning how to struggle and solve problems and recover from mistakes? Uh, or even advocate for themselves. Because I think even for kids, even young kids, they have to learn, and we have to teach them to develop the skill to advocate for themselves. But what are your thoughts on that?
Will Smith [00:15:06]:
Oh, 110%. Um, I think a lot of times parents don't want to see their child struggle, so they jump in as soon as the child starts to feel the smallest inconvenience and solve the problem for them. And when that happens, you know, students, children, they don't build that self-efficacy. There's times where we have a new student coming in and they'll come in with their parent and there's There's 2 extremes. There's the one extreme where the parent is just like, I'm here just for support. You got this, you know what to do, you're gonna have to do it anyway. I'm here just in case I have any questions that you didn't ask. So they just sit in the corner, and then at the end of the appointment when I'm meeting with the student, I'll be like, oh, you have any questions? And then if there's something that, you know, the student didn't ask, they'll ask to get clarification.
Will Smith [00:16:10]:
Then there's the other one where they're asking all the questions, where they're talking over the student, and I try not to be rude, but I have to really show the parent like, you're no longer running the show. Like, this young adult in front of me, they have to make these decisions. So if the parent asks a question, I'll just redirect the question back to the student and focus to the student, like, what do you want? Like, how do you think this should go? And I always tell them, like, I'm here to give you information, so if there's something that I'm telling you that you don't understand, now is the time to ask. So there's definitely the 2 polar extremes, and the ones with the parents that kind of sit back and kind of let their child do the thing, those students are the ones that typically have an easier time navigating higher education. And the ones whose parents are holding their hands and babying them the whole way, those are the ones that struggle because they don't have those skills. They don't have the experience with challenge, right? There's been times where a student will ask me something and I'm like, Did you, did you at least try to find it? They're like, no. And I'd literally just go to Google, show them my screen, put it in Google. I'm like, it's right here.
Will Smith [00:17:40]:
Like, did you even try looking? You know, some students just expect, I don't know, tell me. And, you know, that can also be with technology. Everything is instant, right? We were taught How we actually had to go— I feel like I'm sounding like old people. Back in my day—
Roberto Germán [00:18:00]:
Yeah, you were old head right now.
Will Smith [00:18:03]:
Yeah, but like, you know, we— if we wanted to find something, we would have to go to the library, the library encyclopedia, you know. We have to learn the Dewey Decimal System to find the resources that we need and read through the chapters, look at the table of contents, kind of, you know. find, to navigate to the information that we need. Now, you could just go to YouTube or just type something in, go to Wikipedia, and you, you're getting information. But is the information good? Is it accurate? You know, is it the full picture? Is it really going to help you, you know, learn how to research? Yeah.
Speaker B [00:18:44]:
Yeah, they, we need to lead with curiosity. And we definitely need to Teach folks how to research and research content that is, is accurate, is valid, is truly resourceful, as opposed to like, oh, you know, type in this thing into whatever AI tool is and like, I'm just going with whatever it spits out.
Will Smith [00:19:13]:
Yeah. And there's actually I like— so what I try to definitely keep in mind with dealing with my son is like, he'll ask a question and then I'll— he gets mad at me. He'd be like, Dad. And I'll say, okay, so what steps did you do to figure this out? And he'd be like, but why don't you just tell me?
Roberto Germán [00:19:32]:
And I'm like, critical thinking, because I'm trying to develop you to be a critical thinker.
Will Smith [00:19:37]:
Yep. And you know, I'll ask him questions and we'll like walk through the process. And then he'll be like, okay, I got this. Like, you know, he's 11 now, so he's like in the, you know, Fortnite and V-Bucks and everything like that. And he had some birthday money one time and he was like, Dad, can I, you know, can I get some V-Bucks? And I'm like, I'm not— I was like, I just gave you like a bunch of V-Bucks. I'm not spending any more money. Like, you wasted a lot. And then he went into his room for a little bit.
Will Smith [00:20:08]:
He's like, but I want it. I was like, figure it out. So he came back a couple of minutes later, was like, oh Dad, you know what, I have some V-Bucks because I bought so many through the thing. Can I just, can I just use those? Can I redeem those because they're just there? I'm like, I just looked at him and I just smiled. I'm like, you know what, absolutely. You know, he took time, he solved that problem. So, you know, it's even just everyday interactions. You gotta have your children be uncomfortable, help, you know, be there to support them, but they have to figure things out.
Speaker B [00:20:43]:
Oh, for sure. Oh, for sure.
Will Smith [00:20:46]:
This sounds familiar.
Roberto Germán [00:20:48]:
I do want to move from parents back to the educators.
Will Smith [00:20:52]:
Yeah.
Speaker B [00:20:53]:
As we prepare to conclude, if you could sit down with a room full of elementary, middle, and high school educators and say, Here's what I wish you knew about the students we're receiving on the other side of K-12. What would you tell them?
Will Smith [00:21:14]:
Uh, education is more than just academics. We have to prepare them to, to interact and to live in this, in the society, in this world, and to, to be productive, effective you know, contributors to it. The, the gap is widening between students with these soft skills, with these tools to navigate and interact and think critically and problem solve. And then there's the ones who do not have those skills.
Speaker B [00:21:53]:
Mm-hmm.
Will Smith [00:21:54]:
And more so than not, the ones who do have those soft skills, those things that were kind of normal for us, those are the ones that I have seen at least move on, you know, get internships, are able to network, are able to build relationships. So definitely, you know, within your curriculum, try to implement those Try to implement, you know, critical thinking, problem solving. Don't just give them the answers. Make them work for it. You know, support them, help guide them. You know, if they get off track, help them get back on track. But they have to build self-efficacy. They have to, you know, they have to be comfortable with with the struggle.
Will Smith [00:22:45]:
I think a lot of times. Things have become too convenient where the slightest bit of struggle, they just quit. Like, nah, this is too hard.
Speaker B [00:22:54]:
Mm.
Will Smith [00:22:55]:
And there's no perseverance. A lot of, a lot of people just like, oh, this is hard, I, I quit. And I'm like, wait, you're gonna withdraw from the class already? Did you speak to the professor? Did you go to your professor's office hours? Did you go to tutoring? Oh yeah, I went to tutoring, it didn't work. How many times have you gone to tutoring?
Roberto Germán [00:23:17]:
Once.
Will Smith [00:23:18]:
And it's like, all right, you have to go to tutoring more than once. How about you go when you have time after class? You have class twice a week, go to tutoring those 2 days right after class, you know? So I think just building that grit, right? A lot of students, they don't like to struggle. I mean, who likes to struggle? Right?
Roberto Germán [00:23:44]:
Nobody, nobody likes to struggle. Yeah, exactly.
Will Smith [00:23:47]:
But you know, they, they're uncomfortable with being uncomfortable. And sometimes you have to get comfortable being uncomfortable because that's how you advance. Absolutely. That's how you actually grow.
Speaker B [00:24:01]:
Absolutely.
Will Smith [00:24:02]:
Um, and also, Encourage them to be curious. You got to definitely have them lead with curiosity, because I think a lot of times when you're curious about something, when you ask simple prompting questions, it makes them like, hmm, let me find out more, rather than just like, okay, this is what it is, this is how you do it. And one thing is to Take— teach them how to take accountability.
Speaker B [00:24:36]:
There's a word.
Will Smith [00:24:38]:
Yeah, accountability. Take ownership of your choices, your actions, and the outcomes from those choices and actions. Because a lot of times, it's always somebody else's fault instead of reflecting and like, okay, what did— what part did I have to play in this outcome? And what can I do next time so that this outcome doesn't repeat itself.
Speaker B [00:25:00]:
Mm-hmm.
Will Smith [00:25:02]:
You know, so it's definitely, you know, academically is, you know, the schools are doing best, you know, what they can do best with the resources that they have. But it's beyond academics. There's a lot of those soft skills that students do not have, and they're coming into college where You know, I know you, you see it, you know, the TikToks about, you know, Gen Z employees and how their interactions are with like millennial and Gen X, you know, supervisors and, you know, like, oh, my tummy hurts, I'm not coming in today, or whatever the case is.
Roberto Germán [00:25:42]:
Yeah, I can't fathom. I, you know, I can't relate at all.
Will Smith [00:25:47]:
Yeah. So, you know, definitely You know, those, those soft skills are paramount.
Speaker B [00:25:55]:
Interesting, man. It's so interesting to hear. You know, I've worked with pre-K, 3rd through 12th grade, and I've never— well, I've done some work and been subcontracted to do some stuff higher ed. I've never had a true, you know, higher ed Ongoing work career-wise. So it's always good and healthy for me to hear from folks in the higher ed space about what they're noticing, what they're experiencing, and, you know, things that folks on the K-12 side of things need to be aware of in order to be able to hopefully troubleshoot and better prepare our young people as they transition into the higher ed space. So I thank you for your insights.
Roberto Germán [00:26:44]:
Thank you. Absolutely.
Speaker B [00:26:46]:
About all that we covered today in thinking about and talking about how we are preparing students and are we preparing students for life after K through 12. And certainly look forward to keeping the conversation alive. You know, you always— the door is always open for you to pull up into our classroom. And I appreciate the work that you've been doing in the higher ed space. And I I obviously knew and witnessed firsthand the work that you were doing with students on the ground when you were in the K through 12 space, particularly middle school. So much love to you, my brother. Continue doing what you're doing and making an impact for the people. I'm glad that the young people in the higher ed space have someone like you that they could resource to, to help guide them, to help challenge them, to help encourage them.
Speaker B [00:27:39]:
encourage them. And I hope— I'm hopeful that those seeds will really sprout in them and that it will get them to do the things that they need to do, but also to help others out along the way as they grow into better versions of themselves.
Will Smith [00:27:58]:
Yeah, I appreciate you. And I love watching the work you and Lorena are doing. It's very impactful. It's definitely you know, helping shape the way we look at education and the way that we look at literature and just teaching in general. So continue doing the work you're doing. You guys are great. I had the pleasure of working with Lorena, you know, in— at the high school for a year. So I definitely got to witness firsthand how effective she is as an educator.
Will Smith [00:28:32]:
Thank you.
Speaker B [00:28:33]:
That's right, that's right. Completely forgot about that, man. But yeah, that's, that's awesome, man. Thanks for the reminder. All right, my brother, be well.
Will Smith [00:28:41]:
All right, thank you for your time, man.
Roberto Germán [00:28:44]:
As always, your engagement in Our Classroom is greatly appreciated. Be sure to subscribe, rate the show, and write a review. Finally, for resources to help you understand the intersection of race bias, education, and society, go to multiculturalclassroom.com. Peace and love from your host, Roberto Germán.
Will Smith [00:29:09]:
Peace.
