Roberto Germán 0:01
Welcome to Our Classroom. In this space, we talk about education, which is inclusive of but not limited to what happens in schools. Education is taking place whenever and wherever we are willing to learn. I am your host, Roberto Germán, and Our Classroom is officially in session. In this episode of Our Classroom, we will be talking about working together for equitable schools, with Tina Starks in educational designer for Student Achievement Partners. Tina brings 18 years of experience as an educator to create resources and develop professional learning opportunities centered around liberating and humanizing learning experiences for students. Tina's work is rooted in the belief that historically and systemically marginalized students deserve to have their intellect nurtured, their layered identities valued and their learning linked to the ways they navigate the world. Her writing has been featured in various publications, including Rethinking Schools, Citizen Ed, and Ed Post. With us today, Tina Starks. Welcome back to Our Classroom. We are here live in full effect. And today, I have Tina Starks with us. Yes, folks. Student Achievement Partners and educational designer, long, longtime educator here. When I say long time, I mean 18 plus years. All right? So don't-- don't be offended Tina because I'm a longtime educator also. 18 plus years. All right?
Tina Starks 1:52
I didn’t hear the word old. So I'm good.
Roberto Germán 1:54
I was just gonna say that this means we got a lot of wisdom, right?
Tina Starks 1:57
Roberto Germán 1:58
We’ve got a lot of experience. And I appreciate you being here, Tina. I followed the-- the posts that you put up on Twitter and stuff you're engaging in as it relates to the educational space. And you published an article recently that caught my attention. And so I really wanna dig into this article and hear directly from you about your perspective on some of the things that I noted in the article. And so thank you for your work, thank you for your presence. Thank you for the way you are impacting educators across the country.
Tina Starks 2:35
I appreciate you opening up the opportunity to have this conversation, and the platform that you've set up for so many educators to come and share their voices. Very important and valued. So thank you.
Roberto Germán 2:49
Well, let's go ahead and dig in. In July, you published an article via Ed Post titled, If We Truly Want Equitable Schools, We're Going to Have to Work Together. And at the end of the article, you posed a question for the reader that I will now pose to you just as a conversation starter.
Tina Starks 3:10
Roberto Germán 3:12
What is the true problem in our educational system? That was the question that you posed. And the additional question I’m adding is, how are you addressing that problem through your work with Student Achievement Partners?
Tina Starks 3:27
That's a-- That's a loaded question, right? There's a lot there. And depending on one's experience and perspective, you're gonna get a whole lot of different answers. But for me, you know, in education, you gotta really go back to the roots of education. Like, where did it start? How was it designed? What was the purpose? And so, if you go back, like, post Revolutionary War time, right? The purpose of education was really about this idea of patriotism, you know. This-- We're now, you know, liberated, you know, from British rule. And now we're, you know-- It's about patriotism, it's about religion. And also, you know, these ideas of negative stereotypes around indigenous folks who are already here. And then moving along into the Industrial Revolution, now we're talking about unifying the nation and Americanism and-- and capitalism, right? And now, education is about standardizing, um, the kinds of knowledge and skill sets that are necessary to uphold this industry that is going to, you know, support this new nation.
Then you move on into post World War II time. Now you've got college attendance being, you know, on the upswing now, and all of this when you think about it, there is a common thread of focusing on whiteness and white ideals, and Americanism and how that's defined through these ideals of whiteness, and supporting industry and wealth, right? And so who's-- who's gaining access to education, and what is being taught? And I, you know, I don't think this is a far stretch to say, if you look at our school system now, it does not look like that. It does not look like the folks that it was designed for. We've got folks, you know, who come from immigrant families, we've got folks of all hues, all cultures, all religions. And so the way education was designed, is not serving the people who are in the educational system now. And that includes both teachers and students. And so with that in mind, you know, what I do as a designer-- And you know, just to be clear, I'm here speaking on behalf of Tina Renee.
Roberto Germán 6:01
Tina Starks 6:02
Especially what Tina Renee does and not necessarily on behalf of Student Achievement Partners, but I am very intentional about addressing the how. How do we address students who the system was not designed for? How do we address their needs? And how do we address the needs of educators who the system was not designed for, as well, right? And so when I say that, I'm talking about centering these ideas of inclusion, and, you know, leaving space open for perspectives that are not centered around whiteness. And so that's-- that's what I do as a designer to make sure I'm bringing in those perspectives. And in order to do that, I'm constantly learning and listening to and embracing ideals that may be foreign to my own perspective and experience. Um, yeah, so that's-- that's my approach.
Roberto Germán 7:01
That's good. That's-- And that's great backdrop in terms of the need for us to look at the origins of education and question-- and question its initial design and question how it's serving us now or not serving us now. You-- you talked about, and this is a quote from the article, “painful and difficult truths serve as a vehicle for healing and empathy in the quest for anti racism”. What are three action steps we could take to transmute our pain into purpose?
Tina Starks 7:39
Yeah, that's really difficult because I think the educational system has, you know, kind of supported this-- this big lie, right, around what is the real story. You know, we often get the watered down version of history when we look at education. And so one of the things I think is critical to transmute this pain is to just learn the truth, and get to a place where we can dispel some of the myths and the single narratives that are often at the center of the books that we read, the history that we learn. And sometimes those truths are painful. And that's what I'm referring to when I say, we have to transmute, you know, painful experiences and painful truths. Because in a lot of ways, I find myself doing a lot of unlearning, which is a process that we will all have to go through, right? So there's-- there's that. There’s learning truth. And then there's the other part of understanding the impact of that truth. So, again, that single narrative often likes to paint the picture of America as being this ideal nation that, you know, kind of does no wrong, kind of, but all actions, you know, have an impact on some folks. And so, in order to really understand and embrace those truths, we need to understand the impact not only on the side of, you know, I'll just use the word victorious side, you know, but also the impact on the folks who were harmed by some of the actions, right?
So yeah, learning the truth, understanding the impact, and then you know, this other piece of humanizing our interactions with each other. And that you know, in my mind, that comes from understanding impact, that comes from learning truth and so humanizing meaning that there's a full scope of experiences and perspectives and realities that we need to understand and embrace. Like our own reality is not the only one. So what is the reality of others?
Roberto Germán 10:03
Hmm. So learning truth, understanding impact and humanizing interactions. Yeah, yeah, it's essential. It’s essential. And to me, when I hear you talk about those three matters, one of the things that comes to mind for me is the importance of social-- social-emotional learning, but also tied to anti racist, anti bias world, right? Some folks think they work in isolation, but that doesn't have to be the case and shouldn't be the case.
Tina Starks 10:33
Oh, 100%. And-- and when we think about social-emotional work, right? A lot of times that work has-- has us as educators operating in that space of our intentions. Like we intend to support the student, we intend to make them comfortable, and, you know, intentions are great, but it's definitely not enough. We can't stop there. And so, you know, this idea of understanding the impact, it's like, what are the experiences that our students are having, you know, based on their identities and lived experiences? And so in that sense, social-emotional learning is not enough unless it's including, um, what are some of the oppressive forces that our students are living with? If we're not addressing that, we're not getting to the humanizing part.
Roberto Germán 11:33
Hmm. That's good. Talking about lived experiences, you mentioned that your own truth telling of your lived experiences in and out of American school system as biracial, bilingual and bicultural, black and Japanese woman also humanizes the realities of many students who are denied equitable access to opportunities for relevant and joyful learning. What's your story? What were some of your experiences?
Tina Starks 12:00
Yeah, it's-- You know, it's interesting. Like when we-- when we talk about our experiences, as an educator, like you started off saying, oh, 18 plus years, right? But when you really think about it, you know, we have to include our years of experiences as a student, also. So now we're talking 50 plus years of experience in, you know, the school system, right? Because there's so much that I learned about education, just as a student, and my experiences as a student informs the way I teach, right? And the way I do my work as a designer. And so when I reflect on my experiences as a student from kindergarten all the way up through college even, I think about the lack of representation. My experience was that I had four black educators from kindergarten through college, four. And one Japanese educator. And mind you, I graduated with a degree in Japanese. And I still have one Japanese professor in college.
Roberto Germán 13:14
Tina Starks 13:15
It's wild. It's wild. Right? And that's not even to mention, you know, the limited representation in books, right? ‘Cause I'm a product of the 70s. So I went to school in the 70s. And so even I think about the work that we did around, like, community members, and, you know, how the women were always like nurses and teachers on these worksheets, right? So lack of representation is huge. So that informs my work a lot now is like to be aware of what representation is. And also, my experience as a student is this erasure of identity. You know, as you mentioned, I'm biracial. I'm also bilingual, but my ability to speak Japanese, my bilingualism was never used as an asset in my academic learning. And so--
Roberto Germán 14:17
That's a shame.
Tina Starks 14:18
It is a shame, you know. And I noticed as an adult now, that when I think back on it, even I have internalized that.
Roberto Germán 14:29
Yeah, for sure.
Tina Starks 14:30
You know, there was no avoiding this-- this idea that somehow Japanese is my second language. And in actuality, it was more likely my first language because I spent the first five years of my life in Japan. So I probably spoke more Japanese than I did English prior to going to school, right? But school has taught me to identify my Japanese language as a second language. And even, I have to, if you'll indulge me for a second, even in sixth grade, I remember being pulled out of the classroom one day by a white gentleman. And he pulled out this large sheet of-- It’s a picture, a fold out picture, kind of like a Where's Waldo kind of picture with, like, a lot of stuff going on. And he was checking to see how much Japanese I knew. And he was pointing at different objects and saying, “How do you say this in Japanese? How do you say this in Japanese?” And I remember as an 11 year old thinking, wait, he's not talking to me in Japanese. So I don't think he knows how to speak Japanese. That he was just checking to see how quickly I can respond. And he determined that I knew too much Japanese and my parents were told, yeah, stop speaking Japanese at home ‘cause she's gonna struggle.
Roberto Germán 15:59
Tina Starks 16:01
My dad put brakes on that, by the way. But...
Roberto Germán 16:03
Good for him.
Tina Starks 16:04
Yeah. Hmm. Yeah.
Roberto Germán 16:06
You know, you mentioned that you had-- you only had four black teachers and one Japanese teacher from K through college. That's two more black teachers than I had.
Tina Starks 16:17
Roberto Germán 16:19
And one more Japanese teacher than I had. I didn't study Japanese. But I remember taking an African American theology course in college. It was-- it was taught by a white man. And, you know, I actually didn't have a problem with it. He-- he did his best, you know, he did a decent job. But it's interesting to think about all this stuff and be like, wow, what does the data tell us?
Tina Starks 16:46
Right. And imagine the outrage if it was flipped. If a white student was going to school, and said, I've only had four white educators between kindergarten and college, right? The outrage, I would imagine, would be great.
Roberto Germán 17:08
That would be an interesting-- That would be an interesting case study. I'd love to see it.
Tina Starks 17:14
Me too. Out of curiosity, right?
Roberto Germán 17:17
I’d love to see it. I think it would be a hard press to come by that one. But I would be very interested in seeing that. Thanks for sharing.
Tina Starks 17:26
But you know, Roberto, it leads me to this, a moment that was I felt like was a catalyst for me when I visited a black-owned bookstore in college. It was the first time I walked into a bookstore knowing that it was black-owned, number one. And when I walked in there, and I saw that there were like, tons of black authors. Like there's more than Langston Hughes ‘cause that's all that was taught to me.
Roberto Germán 17:54
Right. Right. And I love-- I love me some Langston Hughes.
Tina Starks 17:58
I love, yes.
Roberto Germán 18:00
I dreamed of her.
Tina Starks 18:01
But there's so much, right?
Roberto Germán 18:03
Tina Starks 18:04
And also that our history goes beyond the struggle. Like I saw novels in there. I saw children's books. I saw all kinds--
Roberto Germán 18:13
Right, right, right. Talk about it.
Tina Starks 18:15
Yeah. And I have to tell you, I really believe that was the moment for me that defined without really knowing it until later that that was going to define how I show up as a parent, how I show up as an educator, because I instantly recognised the betrayal. Because I'm thinking-- At that point, I was at the end of college. And I'm thinking so I went through all these years of school, no one told me any of this stuff.
Roberto Germán 18:44
Tina Starks 18:47
You know? So, you know, I include that as part of my experience that came from my professor. It was an African thought class. And he sent us to a black-owned bookstore to go purchase certain books because they weren't going to be carried at the UCLA bookstore.
Roberto Germán 19:07
Wow, my goodness.
Tina Starks 19:08
Roberto Germán 19:12
Yeah, I think about what you're saying, and it brings me to my college experience. And for me, it's-- it wasn't like I had this moment where I went into a black-owned bookstore like you did, but I think it was more-- I was so-- I don't know if overwhelm is the term. It’s probably not overwhelm. Maybe I was just outraged by the sea of whiteness at my-- at the college, predominately white institution. And me and my brothers, you know, the dudes that I met in college and one that I went to high school with, I mean, he's my brother still to this day. We struggled. We struggled to just exist on that campus, you know, to-- We didn't struggle to be who we are ‘cause we were always going to be who we are. But they struggle to accept us, you know. Like the institution, the folks, you know, students, professors, authorities, I mean, they had us on a blacklist for the-- for the-- like the campus safety. They had us on the blacklist. I mean, it was crazy. And part of it, you know, we were extremely outspoken, started a TV show called The Underground Railroad. While we were doing all this studying, and the knowledge we were obtaining about ourselves about our histories, and the histories of black, indigenous and other peoples’ color, you know, it wasn't happening in our classes. This was us doing the additional work outside of the regular schoolwork that we had to do. Because we were so hungry, to like, learn about ourselves, but also to share it with people.
And really, that was the thing that inspired-- So the book that I’m about to publish, Blowing Tears, a wide poetry book, that started during those college days. That started like, we were just writing like crazy, like, we would get together just to have writing sessions and freestyling like, yo, we gotta write for us to thrive on this campus. You know, because if we don't find the right outlets, whatever we turn to is probably ultimately gonna get us out of this institution, you know? Maybe ‘cause we, you know, we can't channel some of our frustrations. So it might come out in, you know, more violent ways or we might be lashing out or we might shut down and stop doing the schoolwork and just focus on these other things. So writing and writing as a community became the outlet for us. And it became the source of power for us to be able to support one another, express some of the things that we were going through, but also just, like, continue to find our identity and tell our stories.
Tina Starks 22:09
Yes, it's right. It's like you're running this counterintelligence to what the school actually provides, right? Because you're doing this additional learning. But you know, Uncle Jimmy Baldwin does talk about the power of the writer, right? That that is the job of the writer to then capture the experience and spread the word. Like we have to bring out the light of truth on our experiences. And even, you know, we see it in Goldie Muhammad's work where she went back to the black literary societies, and literacy and learning and writing and reading and all of that was about freedom and liberation of black people, right? And so we're still doing that today. We're still doing that today.
Roberto Germán 23:00
Absolutely. Absolutely. So you mentioned-- you mentioned Baldwin, let's turn to the elder that you focused on in your article, Frederick Douglass. Of the four-- You used four powerful quotes. I mean, we could have done this podcast just on the quotes alone.
Tina Starks 23:23
Yes, he was a powerful man.
Roberto Germán 23:27
We could have just picked one quote and be like, let's talk about the quote the whole podcast, but we might just have to do it some other time. But of the four Frederick Douglass’s quotes you cited, which one resonates with you the most and why?
Tina Starks 23:42
Oh, that's really unfair, Roberto.
Roberto Germán 23:45
Here you go. Here you go.
Tina Starks 23:47
It’s unfair. Look, you know, there's the quote, you know, “It's not light we need but fire”. Like that to me is kind of like too easy to say, yeah, that one resonates with me, you know. Because that-- For example, that moment in the bookstore, it ignited something, right? So there's like this level of like, righteous rage, you know, that kind of simmers underneath of what we do. And not to be confused with violent rage, right? That's different. But there's this rage that we are entitled to. But I think the quote that I will say is the one would be the quote that starts with, “My friends, I have come to tell you something about slavery”. And I choose that one because I had some internal conflict around how to work with white folks around this idea of equity and racism, right? When I went into education, let me tell you, I was not shy about telling folks that I was not trying to teach grown white folks anything.
Roberto Germán 25:15
Oh, I've heard-- Yes, I've heard it and I've said it.
Tina Starks 25:19
Yes. And I was unapologetic about it. I was going into education to reach the students, because that's where the change is going to happen. But what do I do every day now?
Roberto Germán 25:30
Training people design?
Tina Starks 25:31
Yes, yes, and I'm working with grown white folks, right? And so what I realized is that there is some significant value in our narrative. Because our narrative and our experiences are what– what white educators do not know and cannot know unless we share it, right? So going back to those three things around, like, know the truth, know the impact and humanize, right? And without our narrative, without us sharing our experience with white educators, that can't happen. Now, I am not suggesting that as folks who are in marginalized groups that we have to carry the burden to now, you know, have the responsibility to teach white folks, right? I am not suggesting that, you know. They need to do the learning. But in order for their learning to be complete, for those of us who are in a place where we have, you know, acquired some healing, and we're able to talk through our trauma, that there's some value in that experience. You know, much like Frederick Douglass spoke to groups of white folks about slavery, his experience in slavery. If he can do that, then I can talk about when they tried to get me to stop talking Japanese, right?
Roberto Germán 27:12
Yeah, yeah, a few things. First of all, I see what you did, Tina. You snuck in two quotes. That’s alright. That’s alright. We're gonna continue the interview.
Tina Starks 27:21
Better. Don’t be mad at me.
Roberto Germán 27:23
The-- You know, I also think there's-- there's a season for everything, right? So like, I think about moments where I've had that mindset and I'm like, I ain’t trying to talk to anybody about anything. I'm just trying to do my work, man. I'm trying to keep my peace, my sanity. I'm just trying to stay balanced. And there's space for that, right? There is a season for that. I think, you know, part of what I've extracted from what you're sharing is like, everybody can't have that mindset that like, you know, hey, you're just gonna stay in that space. Like, some of us actually have to-- However uncomfortable it may make us, we have to be willing to be in that position of, like, helping to drive the narrative, and playing that role of the teacher or, you know, instructing folks in terms of our histories and whatnot, and-- Because if we don't tell our stories, then who will? Right? If we don't instruct the way we wanna see folks instructing, then it's going to be hard to change that expectation, right? And so, you know, folks like us, we have to recognise when it's our season to really lean in, and when it might be our season to like, you know what? I need a breather. I need to step back. I need to focus on, you know, my own health, sanity, peace and whatnot.
And so, I appreciate your courage for taking this off, for leaning into this and I do want to read the-- the-- the entire quote, because it's so powerful. It's so powerful. I think people-- people need to hear this because, man, these words-- Right? And this is coming from somebody, like, I don't like thinking about, I don't like talking about slavery. I don't like watching movies of enslavement. I don't, you know, like ‘cause it just-- I just get this visceral reaction. You know what I’m saying? Like, Ah! My blood's boiling. I get so mad. I'm like, yo, don't put me in front of nobody right now ‘cause it might be on. And yet, you read these words from Douglas and you think of what he went through and you think of his leadership, his words, his impact, and I’m like, yeah, I gotta read this.
Tina Starks 29:42
Yes, we do.
Roberto Germán 29:44
And so it states, “My friends, I have come to tell you something about slavery—what I know of it, as I have felt it. When I came North, I was astonished to find that abolitionists knew so much about it, that they were acquainted with its deadly effects as well as if they had lived in its midst. But though they can give you its history—though they can depict its horrors, they cannot speak as I can from experience; they cannot refer you to a back covered with scars as I can; for I have felt these wounds; I have suffered under the lash without the power of resisting”. Frederick Douglass, I have come to tell you something about slavery (1841). Woof!
Tina Starks 30:43
Ah, thank you, brother for doing that, because I have read that multiple times. But the way you read it, the energy behind your reading really just gave me chills all over again. You know, this is something that Frederick Douglass has left behind for us to understand. You know, to-- Again, going back to the truth of history, and really the experience of black humanity, right? Like this happened, you know, long, long time ago, but it lives in our bones. It lives in our bones. Yeah, so thank you for doing that reading. I appreciate it.
Roberto Germán 31:35
You know, sister. So I'm going back to college again. I wrote-- I wrote a poem. I was in a poetry contest in college and I went first and third place. The first place poem was a piece that I wrote, and if I remember correctly, was like my major American authors class. The poem was-- The poem is titled, The Freedom Train, and it was inspired by Frederick Douglass. I wrote the piece-- I wrote the piece during the time that a friend of mine, Luis Torres, was murdered. I was a sophomore in college. And, again, this, like, this is what I knew to do. You know, when things are happening in my life, I write. And there was a lot going on, besides the fact that my friend was murdered, I was in this class. And we were reading and learning about the biography of Frederick Douglass. I was the only brother, I was the only person of color in the entire class. Student, professor, everybody else is white. And my professor was great by the way. I loved her. Professor Kathleen Shine Kane. She was wonderful. And she also-- She understood that I was going through it at that time, that my friend got killed. And then like, dealing with the content and like looking around the class. And I'm like, I told you and I just explained to you like, when we're talking about and reading about and seeing films related to the enslavement of black folks, you know, be ready to dive dodges, be ready to get in it.
And so, thankfully, she worked with me, understood, gave me flexibility I need, like step out and like, yo, you gotta leave. Go, you know, do what you gotta do. Go see the school therapist or whatever. And, you know, thinking about Douglass's experience and reading about it and what he went through, it helped me to kinda get in touch with my own emotions in the particular context that I was in. Like, what happened to my friend and what-- I don't want to go into details, but it was, you know, it was horrible. And, like the Douglass’s words, it, you know-- Even though there was-- there was a lot of trauma in what he experienced, it did give me life, you know, in a very strange and interesting way. Like, it gave me life. It helped me to feel empowered. ‘Cause there's victory in his story, right? There's victory in overcoming and going through what he went through. And so, that also helped me to get through those difficult moments that I was going through. So thank you. Thank you for this article that-- This wasn't even part of-- This was not part of the interview. Like when I was thinking and prepping and, you know, getting questions down and whatnot, like this literally just came right now after we just did this segment and read this quote. But the fact that, you know, you framed your article around Douglass and used his four quotes, it's really bringing back some stuff for me. So thank you.
Tina Starks 35:26
I appreciate your vulnerability to even share your own experience. You know, it's amazing how our ancestors have a way of leaving behind medicine for us, right? But just being able to have the awareness to be able to take in that medicine. Yeah, appreciate you sharing that. Yeah
Roberto Germán 35:53
So, if you had an opportunity to have lunch with Frederick Douglass, what would you say to him? What questions would you ask him? Like, bring us into that scene. Bring us into that lunch.
Tina Starks 36:07
Oh, my gosh. I have thought about this so much. Like what would it have been like to sit with Frederick Douglass? Like, I don't know. I, you know-- As corny as this might sound, I mean, you know, gratitude first. I mean, you know, gratitude for so much like his example of excellence. I, you know, I think about his speaking and writing ability in the acts of illegal learning, for black folks is, like, an example of like, whoa, I mean, you know, so many things like our possibilities, number one, but the power of literacy, you know.
Roberto Germán 35:53
Tina Starks 37:01
Yeah. So there's-- there's that. And I guess, well, for one thing, I think he would not have any context for 2023. So I think he would have some questions for me, which I would be glad to answer. But--
Roberto Germán 37:19
How long? How much time you got? How much time you got, Mr. Douglass? Let me tell you about what's happening about these books that are being banned.
Tina Starks 37:34
Too much, right? But the one thing that is consistent, though, is his message of humanizing. Like that, that is consistent. So, you know, I would-- I would just be wondering if we are-- we are doing him proud, or, you know, have we gleaned what he wanted us to glean from what he's left behind for us? And you know, the wisdom of ancestors. Like, what are we doing well and what are we missing? Because obviously, there's still work to be done. We're still calling for humanizing experiences, right? So that's what I would wanna know. I would wanna know, like, what would he advise us today?
Roberto Germán 38:24
Yeah, those are-- That's good. That would be a good lunch. So what's the message of encouragement that you have for our audience?
Tina Starks 38:37
Yeah, in addition to doing those three things, right?
Roberto Germán 38:40
Tina Starks 38:41
Understanding impact and humanizing. I think, really, to understand the power of expanding one's reach. Like, think about where you are, what's your proximity? And what is your capacity? And expand it. You know? And that is-- that's room for everyone. So if you're-- if you're in the space of like reading and learning and studying, how can you expand that? Can you read, learn and study with someone else? Can you read, learn and study with a group of folks? If you're in a classroom, how can you expand your reach about your knowledge and experience and expertise? Can you write something? Can you write a blog? Can you write a book? Can you start a podcast, right? Whatever it is, it's just from wherever you are, expand the reach, make it bigger.
Roberto Germán 39:36
That's good. That's good. Tina, where can folks follow you?
Tina Starks 39:42
Uh, they can follow me on Twitter and on Instagram. I'm still learning Instagram. I'm working on my game. I'm relatively new there but my handle is the same. TinaR_Starks. So you can find me in those two spaces and you can also find me on LinkedIn as well.
Roberto Germán 40:01
All right, well, I'm still learning Twitter. So don't feel bad. We're all learning, but we're also trying to-- The reason we're learning is because knowledge is good. And we're trying to expand our reach, folks. So, hey, there you have it. Tina Starks gave y'all some serious gems. Read the article again. Check it out for yourself. Go to Ed Post. The article is titled, If We Truly Want Equitable Schools, We're Going to Have to Work Together, and that's a good message for us, folks. That is a good message for us to embrace. And just a reminder, make sure that you are learning truth, understanding impact and humanizing actions, interactions. Humanize your interactions, all right? Don't see folks as the other. See them as human. Hey, Tina, appreciate you. Oh, that was good. This was good talking about all of this stuff, especially talking about Frederick Douglass, and thank you for the work that you're doing. Thank you for your willingness to share and to bring us into your thinking, bring us into your world, but to also challenge and encourage us. And that's part of what this platform is about. We wanna learn, grow, step outside of the four walls of the schoolhouse, and really dig deeper into our history, dig deeper into what's happening with current practices, and figure out where it is that we can make adjustments that will better serve our scholars, better serve us adult practitioners and others. And even folks, obviously, outside of the realm of education, right? Because we're all impacted in one way, shape, or form by the journey of education even if you're not within the realm of the schoolhouse. So, Tina, thank you. We'll have to do this again at some point. Maybe it'll be a podcast simply focusing on Frederick Douglass’s words.
Tina Starks 42:10
I would love that. Thank you, appreciate you and much respect.
Roberto Germán 42:14
Peace. As always, your engagement in Our Classroom is greatly appreciated. Be sure to subscribe, rate the show and write a review. Finally, for resources to help you understand the intersection of race bias, education and society, go to multiculturalclassroom.com. Peace and love from your host, Roberto Germán.